The future of gaming is... on Linux?

Discussion in 'Games, Gaming & Game-demos' started by anticupidon, Apr 20, 2019.

  1. anticupidon

    anticupidon Ancient Guru

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    I will start willing to admit that I know for a fact most people will just shrug it off violently, bringing heavyweight arguments and very solid points that this is outrageous. Even call me or the very idea preposterous.
    And how this topic was discussed so many times.
    And you are right, my fellow gurus.

    But hear me out.

    Since last year, I followed some developments on gaming, but not particularly on Windows platforms. And some very smart people foresaw maybe something similar to Google's Stadia, but astoundingly similar.
    When Stadia was announced, I was amazed, this is where the paradigm shift starts.
    More so, Steam's Proton API is another factor adding up to the title's statement. Yes, Valve knows way better where the money comes from - Windows platform-but they want and actively develop an alternative gaming platform that is based on Vulkan and Open GL.

    Now, Google's Stadia is making a very heavy statement - we can offer gaming to masses without Windows. Yes, as consoles do, but not all consoles are using DirectX.
    Not a solid argument here, but somehow they can influence some people:


    Goofy and cringy as it is, there are some valid points and very easy to understand concepts. And make people search for and discover new stuff.

    Some serious help for gaming on Linux





    More serious opinion on Linux gaming from the Wendell from Level1 tech channel



    This guy knows what is what and their forum is "steaming" with topics about gaming on Linux.

    Sometimes, change comes ever so slightly, so easy to miss. Remember how many things that now we are taking as normal were ridiculous way back when they were announced?
    Among some many things we are willing to have a more open mind, maybe is time to reconsider the next gaming platform or a solid alternative?
    Please, let's keep it civil folks, no calling names, no personal attacks, and fanboyism.
    Have an opinion? All right, bring it on!
    Let's have an academic discussion, and make this forum even better.
    Cheers!
     
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  2. cerebus23

    cerebus23 Ancient Guru

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    google who is shadowbaning people for "wrong think" on youtube? and i am going to trust them to run a gaming platform? sure i can see that ending well as they pc our games even harder than they already are.

    I already got account nuked by google with no warning at all, on an account i did nothing but watch videos and crap post, and my channel got terminated with NO notice, no warnings and no recourse because i do not have enough subscribers to force the issue, no partnership no nothing and far as i know they violated their OWN rules when in such a rush to nuke my channel. no doubt i triggered some snowflake that mass flagged my text POSTS for some edge, ty utube heroes making utube more gey by the month.

    tell i a am bit pissed at google atm?

    Either way what happened to the great linux meltdown of last year, with the great stand off between the same snowflakes that no doubt flagged my channel, trying to force "hate speech" rules down the thorats of the entire linuix community.

    But windows is also geting more garbage, they spy on your skype calls and can terminate your account if you dare speak edgy on your PRIVATE call, they made win 10 and backword patched their spyware into windows 7 and 8. and they made things that should be simple obtouse as hell so you had to jump through hoops to NOT be spied on, and if you turn off ALL their nanny bs? well whole core components of windows now get disabled making windows just NOT work.

    Yea windows is complete crap, and i hope if its steam, or linux someone makes a pure gaming os, even bonus points if it was application friendly.

    Either way tech is fd and getting worse and is probably going to get even worse before some of this horseshit pulls back, if govt has to get involved and break up these companies it cannot come quick enough.

    google microsoft and all of them should be busted up and sold off.

    and yes wendell is a great guy and knows his stuff he was the one great thing about that group he used to be associated with.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2019
  3. anticupidon

    anticupidon Ancient Guru

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    This is not about Google as a company and the morality of their services, it's about WHAT technology they are using. It's about Vulkan and Linux. The Linux kernel is a collaborative development model will benefit from multiple increments and add-ons and the end users as well, without Google's seal of approval. Having that project backed up by powerful companies, what is to lose here?
    Concerned about privacy? You can always fork and compile your own kernel version, and you are good to go.
    The point here is that little by little, there is more awareness about alternative gaming platform, more than ever. Windows 10 team is working so hard to convince people to look elsewhere.;)
     
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  4. Alex13

    Alex13 Ancient Guru

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    Press X for massive doubt
     
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  5. anticupidon

    anticupidon Ancient Guru

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    Read first paragraph of the tread.
    More, anyone remembers the very first Android smartphone? And look today at Android.
    Enough said?
    And same company, same base. Linux kernel.
    Press F to pay respect to Linus Torvalds.
     
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  6. Alex13

    Alex13 Ancient Guru

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    Ok then, im sure you can will it into existence.
     
  7. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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    I hope not.
    Every version of Android is twisted frack in its own way.
     
  8. TheDeeGee

    TheDeeGee Ancient Guru

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    I heard people say this 10 years ago as well.

    Not to bash on Linux, but at this rate it's not going to happen.
     
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  9. ShadowDuke

    ShadowDuke Ancient Guru

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    Not going to happen.
     
  10. anticupidon

    anticupidon Ancient Guru

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    Don't worry, bashing Linux was born since the 0-day of the Linux kernel. Since then I also heard people stating about: This year is the year of the Linux desktop and failed to materialize since then.
    For some people gaming on Linux is already a reality, for some is a utopia, for some is a blasphemy, cancer.
    Does anyone remember Steve Ballmer? Nadella could have a talk with that guy.
    More, anyone here remembers when @Hilbert Hagedoorn did some weird SSD out of CF cards assembling like an SDD and predicted the SSD era? That article somehow haunted me for years and reading lately one of Hilbert's nowadays reviews about NVMe drives stating that 1 GB/s is slow. The irony.

    Predicting the future is very, very hard. I fail to foresee where to apply for a job but to predict something like this. No.
    Just seeing those trends makes me wonder, and I would like very much to become a norm and a reality for the vast majority.

    This is NOT the Linux kernel fault, just brands willing to release something new and not supporting the older one.
     

  11. The Laughing Ma

    The Laughing Ma Ancient Guru

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    Let's see. Would we agree the biggest push for Linux as a real alternative to Windows gaming came from Valve / Steam? The result being a massive and underwhelming MEH from the gaming community. To the extent that Valve has all but given up on their Linux platform.

    Yeah it may happened but it won't be amongst the people who have been watching this saga for years it will be in the larger consumer market, the market commonly know as the 'casual gaming market'. A system that just happens to run a Linux distro that some how takes the mass consumer market by storm. The majority of folk using the system day in and day out won't much care that it uses a Linux Distro similar to how most folk most likely don't know or care what distro their set top boxes use.
     
  12. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    I don't think the meh was from the gaming community with SteamOS, many were supportive. It was the fact Valve pretty much lied about performance to sell it and then gave up before it even got off the ground.

    It's far too late now, people are not going to dual boot unless it's Linux only that isn't going to happen.
     
  13. Yxskaft

    Yxskaft Maha Guru

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    Linux won't have a chance convering Windows gamers until it at the least matches Windows' performance in modern games.
    Many Windows users are also too used to 15+ years experience of just using Windows' way, and give up on Linux as soon as they can't install a program via the Software center.
     
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  14. cerebus23

    cerebus23 Ancient Guru

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    by all account last i heard linux had come a massive leap in usability but yea it cannot take a programming degree to get a game or application installed on your os, but its also that high tech bar of entry and makes it so attractive to those that can hack it, because of how much you can tweak change by just redoing some code.

    that catch 22 ideally they should have the idiot proof training wheels version for a game/home os and the ball out pro os for the coders.
     
  15. anticupidon

    anticupidon Ancient Guru

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    See, you didn't watch the Lutris video. Lutris does all the needed configurations, settings and gives to the user the running game. Click install, then run was never been so easier on Linux. Have you really looked at what I've posted, or answered just so?
    It comes today of click install- play the game. Fire it up Steam or Lutris and play some games.
    The myth that one has to have a programming degree for running apps on Linux is both old and plainly false.

    The Linux schedulers could teach a lesson or two to Windows 10. Hint, check Threadripper performance in Linux and Windows 10. The same Wendell from Level1 explained plainly how dumb Windows 10 handles CPU cores and wrote a program to fix that issue. In Linux, handling cores is done more efficiently.

    Some hard evidence backing what I am saying
    https://level1techs.com/article/unlocking-2990wx-less-numa-aware-apps
    Phoronix Windows & Linux comparison https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...
    Ian Cutress' article on The Core0 mystery https://www.anandtech.com/show/13446/...

    And for some people who weren't around this article from Anandtech could show what changed in the last 10 years.
    https://www.anandtech.com/show/2897
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2019
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  16. cerebus23

    cerebus23 Ancient Guru

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    I was more responding to that idea that linux will never be idiot friendly.

    has to be if its going to mainstream and yes it has made massive gains in that area in the last few years, and almost fell apart completely if a bunch of people had pulled their code over pc bs.

    but no i do not keep up with the daily ins and outs of that community, nor follow it that closely.
     
  17. Yakk

    Yakk Member Guru

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    Steam's Proton, Google's Stadia, even indirectly Apple's Gaming thingy based on FreeBSD (OSX) & iOS are all applying big pressure for game studios to develop on Linux. And sooner rather than later Linux & Vulkan first, then other platforms. IMO Microsoft painted themselves into a corner where gaming in concerned and even with all the money they can throw at it, they may not be able to turn the tide back into their favour.

    Linux VM possibilities are the other "game" changer... for instance I only keep a small Windows install in a VM now for some games, otherwise I do all work and most gaming on other Linux VMs now. It's kinda the beginning of the golden age of VMs for the average consumer now + AMD making high CPU core count parts within reach of consumers makes it easier than ever to do.
     
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  18. XenthorX

    XenthorX Ancient Guru

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    Why the future? It's the present.

    The present of gaming is on mobile, and it's dominated by Linux kernel, end of story :eek:


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems

    "[...] Worldwide device shipments (referring to wholesale) by operating system, which includes smartphones, tablets, laptops and PCs together."

    Android 54%
    iOS/Max 12.37%
    Windows 11.79%

    [​IMG]

    Now the paradox is that PC Gaming hardware is also growing.
    But why would an individual install linux on his PC while he's probably used to Windows and Office at work?
    (Assuming he/she's not working in a creative field which use a lot of Apple product)
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019
  19. AsiJu

    AsiJu Ancient Guru

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    I wouldn't mind ditching MicroShaft and a few others while at it, at all, lols.

    Question as I'm not at all familiar with Linux gaming: is the reason for lower performance in gaming simply due to lack of popularity and so optimization, or is there something inherent about Linux (vs. Windows) that causes this?

    Or is performance even an issue anymore with OGL and in future Vulkan?

    Btw I remember during Ryzen's launch when W10 was suspected of not handling cores properly, a comparison was made to Linux's scheduler which, surprise, was more efficient.
     
  20. RzrTrek

    RzrTrek Ancient Guru

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    It would be the "future of gaming", had I been able to get Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine to run on Proton (Valve's CEG DRM is the only thing keeping me), but jokes aside, it may be far from optimal and the general performance tends to be lower, but my body is ready for RADV+ACO paired with the 5.6 kernel and Phoronix did a bunch of early benchmarks, which looks very promising:

    [​IMG]

    I did try an early nightly build of Fedora 32 a few days ago and boy everything was so much snappier (a bunch of i/o work went into gnome/mutter on wayland), but in the risk of rambling indefinitely, I'm in for the long run as I value my privacy and want to have full control over my system (in which case Arch?), but I got comfortable with Fedora's bug tracker and testing repositories.

    ACO can now handle more shaders
    https://cgit.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/commit/?id=b9695013986d3341e5bb74cfc09dc492204129f5
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2020
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