The Fall of Bethesda

Discussion in 'Games, Gaming & Game-demos' started by angelgraves13, Nov 9, 2019 at 1:16 AM.

  1. angelgraves13

    angelgraves13 Maha Guru

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    Bethesda has officially lost whatever charm it had left with gamers. No, I won't talk about Fallout 76 because I never played it and never want to play it...in any capacity. Ever. They've ruined their public image and basically slapped all their fans in the face with releasing "live service" and "games as a service" products in less than a year.

    Hey, ever wanted to play the Wolfenstein games, but as two immature, annoying girls? No? Well you get it anyway....and you get it with microtransactions! Did you like RAGE? Not really? Well you're getting RAGE 2 with cringe worthy storytelling and characters. With writing so bad...you have to ask yourself "did they force the developers to do this?"

    Bethesda... I've fallen out of love with you. I don't even really have hope for DOOM Eternal at this point. They'll force microtransactions and entertainment politics into every game now. Then they'll wonder why they're hated.
     
  2. KissSh0t

    KissSh0t Ancient Guru

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    For me this all started with horse armor.
     
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  3. CPC_RedDawn

    CPC_RedDawn Ancient Guru

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    I think the main dev studio has fallen very very short ever since Skyrim became such a massive hit, followed closely by Fallout 3. Their ego's grew way too big, and now that the game is still selling pretty well as its been ported to literally everything. They just don't seem to care anymore.
     
  4. jbscotchman

    jbscotchman Ancient Guru

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    Nothing more truthful has ever been spoken, regarding the evolution of gaming. I didn't own an Xbox 360 and have never been a huge fan of the ES series, but I remember so many friends of mine going crazy over "new horse armor!" I asked "how much is it?" They said: "only $3.50!" I said: "WTF?"
     

  5. Damien_Azreal

    Damien_Azreal Ancient Guru

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    Bethesda as a developer have always been problematic. From horse armor, to paid mods... the ESO's original launch.
    Patches that break games, patches that break previous patches... bad publicity and stupid marketing. It's par the course for them.

    But, as a publisher, they are actually one of my favorites. While they occasionally do something stupid (cancel PREY 2)... they still brought us Wolf:TNO, the DisHonored series, DOOM 2016, Evil Within and PREY.

    And really, people are all up on it right now about Fallout 76. But, anyone with any brain knows... they know for a fact, that no matter how much bitching, crying and "stands" people are taking...
    When Starfield releases, people will buy it up like it's crack. Same with the next Elder Scrolls.
    There is no "fall" to Bethesda.
     
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  6. Arctucas

    Arctucas Ancient Guru

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    They, like every other studio who sold their soul to Gabe and became tied to Steam, lost my business forever.
     
  7. cerebus23

    cerebus23 Ancient Guru

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    umm how does steam factor into it they not handing bethesda enough of the $$$ so bethesda is forced to nickle and dime and lie and abuse customers?

    what gab got a shotgun at the heads of the board of betheda?

    they been trying to monotize mods going way back to massive backlash.

    they got lazier and lazier and took on more and more. that not gabes fault or steams how does that even process? he is not the ceo of bethesda or it just works howard.
     
  8. KissSh0t

    KissSh0t Ancient Guru

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    Bethesda wanted to monetize mod's & modders so much after their first attempt failed that they side stepped Steam and created their own platform to keep trying...

    I feel like Bethesda's modus operandi is do less to make more.
     
  9. jbscotchman

    jbscotchman Ancient Guru

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    Gabe and Steam have nothing to do with Bethesda's plan of mass micro-transactions.
     
  10. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    Beth has fallen out of favour for me at the release of ESO. That's like... half a decade ago. OP, you're late to the party, pick a number.
     

  11. Chess

    Chess Master Guru

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    For some perhaps, but FO4 and so many other titles remedied that for them.
    https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethesda_Softworks.

    Hype works? :(
     
  12. WhiteLightning

    WhiteLightning Don Illuminati Staff Member

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    Yep, and still everyone buys the next elder scroll :D
     
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  13. Martigen

    Martigen Master Guru

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    Although said in jest, it is a scathingly accurate observation. Horse armor really was the beginning of "How can we increase our profits by shafting our customers?".

    And now we have the trainwreck that is F76 -with- a $100 year sub for features that should have been in the game to begin with at no extra cost.

    There is only one way this will ever change now -- stop buying their games. Every time you give them money, you feed the beast and it will only get worse.

    There are so many amazing games available today, and there are hundreds of incredible and promising games coming from hundreds of other studios. Many of us even have large backlogs of shame to still play through. You don't need Bethesda's games anymore. Stop buying their games, you don't need them, don't give them your money.
     
  14. The Laughing Ma

    The Laughing Ma Ancient Guru

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    I won't. The second I heard both games planned on using the Creation Engine, i.e Gamebyro with some spit and polish I was out. Not withstanding that Skyrim wasn't a patch on Oblivion and that F4 just felt lazy and devoid of content, their game engine was: old, janky and barely fit for purpose back with Oblivion. The fact that they gave it a spit shine and a new name changed nothing; same look, same jank and the fact they plan to continue using this mess of a game engine for their next big up coming games is a total lose of all interest for me. Perhaps after reviews and a decent sale to off set the pain of stilted janky awful gameplay and of course the community has patched the flaws and issues Bethesda's laziness and incompetence fail to fix, maybe just maybe then... but most likely not.

    No they just jumped right in to bed, and opened their legs for the full paid mods experience though.
     
  15. Zenoth

    Zenoth Maha Guru

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    To be honest, had it not been for the fact that their mainline games can be extensively modified it wouldn't have had that much of an impact as the games that they are, they wouldn't have had that much longevity to them, and the company that comes with them wouldn't have been regarded that highly (by some anyway).

    For many, the 'love story' with Bethesda (when there was one, if any) started with Morrowind. If not, maybe Oblivion. It's possible that for perhaps an even smaller number of newcomers (to the company, in a way) it started with Skyrim. But I stand with the assumption without stats to prove it that for most of us it was Morrowind that started it. The thing is even back with Morrowind, which I myself first played (and owned) on the original XBOX (and later on got it on PC) it didn't take a rocket scientist to understand that mods absolutely polished and dramatically improved it (unless of course one never played it outside of consoles which at the time wouldn't have allowed you to know about what mods could do to the game); but that the only drawback for many was the sheer time and research it'd take in some situations to properly mod the game to start with without breaking its stability. But that once it was done, you'd never look back.

    There's been a permanent pattern in their games ever since Morrowind, which to this very day has remained (remained from that point and into Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout 3 and 4):

    - Simplistic main story line.
    - Mostly horrible voice acting and writing (with very few exceptions here and there).
    - Very old engine throughout all their titles (doesn't matter what new 'features' they add on that poor dinosaur, or what new name they give it; it's still bad and only gets worse over time).
    - As as result of the above, character movement (animation, fluidity, motion) is stiff and janky.
    - Facial expressions are old-style from a long-gone era (it's stuff you'd see in a PlayStation 2 or GameCube game at best), simple, robotic and archaic.
    - Physics are synced with FPS and a specific limit (60 fps) and get blown away to orbit if you get past that limit (ever seen plates and forks constantly shaking, trembling and flying all over the place in interior cells? Then welcome to all their games).
    - NPCs are, for the most part (with some few select exceptions) very boring, simple and generic characters.
    - Combat systems are very old and barely playable by now. Projectile physics, in particular, is horrendous (Mage / Caster / Archer players will know what I mean).
    - A.I. cannot deal with "Stealth". Ever had an enemy NPC getting an arrow between the eyes and casually walking and scouting the vicinity going: "Is anyone there?!". Yep.

    And I'm obviously forgetting a couple of things.

    BUT...

    All of the above (and then some... a lot of "some") can be modified, which is the main point I wanted to bring.

    The point being that by themselves, Bethesda as a game development studio(s) are definitely not the most talented or competent around. The main reason to this day as to why people still play Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout 3 and Fallout 4 is exactly because the modding community has been breathing life into their base, vanilla and otherwise often even broken games; and they continue to do so today. I wouldn't be surprised if Skyrim - by now - happens to be the most modded game of all time; it's probably rivaling if not surpassing in raw number of mods that have been done over the decades with the DOOM / Build engine mods, or even mods done with the Half-Life / Gold Source engine. If it's not at the top it's sure as hell damn close to it.

    I myself absolutely love Skyrim. But I MUST mod it extensively to appreciate the game to the level that I do. Whenever I say something (on forums or just thinking to myself) like "I loved Morrowind" or "I still play Skyrim to this day" I never actually refer to their vanilla versions. My Morrowind is not currently installed, but if I ever want to go back I have a backup on my drive that contains something like 40+ mods (and I know, that's actually a small number for a lot of people out there playing those games like I do with mods). My Skyrim currently has no less than 86 mods and that's not even including the dozens of dozens of smaller tools / software / scripts / config file changes along with manual fixes that I had to apply to the damn thing for it to work and stay stable (and it does work and stays stable). It took me a solid two weeks to end up configuring, fixing, modding and adjusting my current Skyrim installation in order to play it the way I can enjoy it with the mods I chose.

    I can say, however, that out of all their games so far only Skyrim and Fallout 4 are 'playable' enough (with mods) that I can actually enjoy them. The others, even if I did enjoy them at their respective time I find to be way too archaic today to endure. Yes, I 'loved' Oblivion, but today it's way too cringe and janky, even with mods I just can't. Even Morrowind, which I find to be the best-written of their games can only do so much to hold my interest just by its writing; because I genuinely just cannot deal anymore with that old of an engine, physics, robotic animations and just overall plain and simple archaic game that did NOT age well at all (sorry but no, not all "great games" age well; but that would be an entire other topic to go with).

    Anyway, if I keep on going I know I'll just side track into a wall.

    My main point is that Bethesda, on their own, were never that great to start with. I'm sorry if this offends some but it's the truth. I've seen plenty of people over the years anyway saying that the only game they ever enjoyed from them was Morrowind and all the rest after that was garbage. To them what's going on with Bethesda and their games recently is probably something they saw coming all the way back when they first played Oblivion. I myself praised ONE thing from Bethesda (and it was never actually related to their 'talent' making their games per se) and it was to thank them for letting the players use their own game editor to modify their games. If there IS something to thank them for, that's the one thing to point at. If anyone here played ANY one of their games and enjoyed it because of 'x', 'y' and 'z' mods, even if it was just something like SkyUI or the Unofficial Patches, then you can say thank you to them for giving us the power to FIX and improve their games since Morrowind and, of course, the modding community for being the ones using said tools (and in many cases, making new tools entirely).

    So coming from someone who played all their games so far with extensive modding I can say this: If they frack up the 'Moddability' of Elder Scrolls 6 by not providing an official tool to temper with the game like we've always done then, yes... THEN at that point - for me - it will signal the 'Fall of Bethesda'. As of now, I consider them to be about as bad as they've been since they tried to make us pay for mods, which already dates back to a few years I think (wasn't that about 2 ago?). They've been on a non-stop downward spiral since then. So Fallout 76 isn't the 'beginning' of their descent in my book. For some it was Horse Armor, for others it was Oblivion itself as a game (excluding anything else); and for others it was Fallout 4. We all seem to have different reasons to dislike them as a company, which ultimately shows that all they should do in the future is try their best to 'behave' (with their 'business practices', basically treat your consumers well and holy crap... it's gonna get better; crazy concept I know) and just make at least working games. And holy jeebus get rid of that damn GameBryo engine (and stop renaming it every time you add an arbitrary number of 'new things' that it couldn't do before) for crying out loud!
     
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  16. KissSh0t

    KissSh0t Ancient Guru

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    The only reason I am able to play Fallout 4 properly is because of a mod that fixes super long load times by disabling vsync between loading from inside to outside and vice versa... kinda funny when you think about it.
     
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  17. coc

    coc Master Guru

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    that's actually the reason i stopped playing FO4 and didn't bother with finishing it. it was simply ridiculous.

    anyway the thing about Bethesda, they way i see it :

    THEY DON'T GIVE A DAMN. their actions and their promises are on two completely different sides.

    the positive thing about Bethesda's "fall" is that we are not in 2010 anymore. games have evolved way
    further than the Skyrim's Era especially when it comes to game-play.. something Skyrim is considered for me
    as a B minus game at best, despite being an amazing game for its time.

    of course that's just my own interpretation of the situation with modern gaming... The Witcher 3 and more games
    like Dark Souls or Lords of the Fallen makes Skyrim combat looks like a Tetris game. games like those
    simply set the bar higher and higher, and i don't think the next Elder Scroll will live to its expectations only
    with better graphics.

    as time moves on i think it only works against them. i don't think Bethesda and\or BioWare will deliver
    us games like in their glory days. can't see that happening. Starfield, the next ES game, the next Dragon Age
    game... i imagine they will be a 7.5-8\10 games with FAR less talent and magic like the past games.

    i honestly prefer sometimes a solid remasters that do the job.. instead of newer games that
    exists only to sell some and be forgotten. that's the case with all the latest titles ( for me )
    from Bethesda and BioWare.
     
  18. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    Yes, you might be right about that. I too bought F4 GOTY edition dirt cheep, but it won't capture me anything like Skyrim did. And when TESO was released, I was already expecting the next SP game being delayed to this crap.


    :(
    You know me too well mate... and I'm not proud of myself. But that's all I want from them... the rest is basically not my cup of tea, I bought the Wolfenstein games alltogether for like 15€ long after release, just because they had the balls to apply for allowing Nazi symbols in Germany so I can blast up fascists to my heart's content.
    But ultimately, I'm only in for the next ES title on release...
     
  19. Damien_Azreal

    Damien_Azreal Ancient Guru

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    You know, Horse Armor was so stupid. Paid mods were an awful idea. And FO76 was... well... the minute it was announced I thought it was awful.

    But, if Starfield looks like fun... I'll probably get it.
    Because no studio is flawless, and no publisher has gone without making stupid decision after stupid decision.
    Skyrim... was fun. Fallout 4 was fun.
    And, seeing as how Starfield is being made by Todd's team at the main office... I'll check it out.


    But, anything that comes from Bethesda Austin, yeah that can go die in a dumpster fire. That studio should've been shut down when Battlecry was canceled, not renamed and given a project that never should've been.
     
  20. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    I wait to see what the next ES is like.
    If they reduce the experience of the basic game with transactions of any form, they will lose a day 1 purchase and this game series will go down a lot in my estimation.
    No chance I'll pay full price for 1/2 a game.
     
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