Terror attack in Manchester

Discussion in 'The Guru's Pub' started by BLEH!, May 23, 2017.

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  1. lucidus

    lucidus Ancient Guru

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  2. millibyte

    millibyte Maha Guru

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    ^OOOOooooOOOO, more evidence that ISIS and it's affiliates are unrepentant sh*tbags, how revelatory. Thank you. Now, when Duterte decides to burn down an entire village on the suspicion that a single terrorist may have passed through the night before to bugger a local goat on the way to some ill-fated martyrdom operation, make sure to post that story too. Besides, Duterte, despite being a rather neglectful Christian and having his own gripes with the church for a variety of reasons, not the least of which involves claims of being abused by a priest, is no doubt representative of the deepest convictions of all Christians, from Christ himself to those yet to be born. So make sure to sing la la la <Christianity> religion of peace when the Punisher goes Old Testament on his own people. Gotta be consistent.

    And that's all that anyone should really want, isn't it? A bit of consistency. Let all those who kill innocent people, justify the killing of innocent people, promote the killing of innocent people, etc. extinguish themselves and let the rest of us live in peace.
     
  3. lucidus

    lucidus Ancient Guru

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    Those groups precede IS. The Philippine military and government doesn't act in the name of Christ either. Learn the difference. If they fight the army, they will get what they deserve. I don't care and not a single Filipino I know cares.

    Remember to exile yourself in your noble fight against the killing of innocents for your type of people who play the apologetic are just as responsible as the man wielding the gun. Consistency.

    What next? Will you tell me jihad is an internal struggle like meditation?
     
  4. rm082e

    rm082e Master Guru

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    That's a red herring argument. And you conveniently left out the most relevant bit of that period in history:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZCuF733p88

    Which leads to the obvious question:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvnlYhRZNEo

    I'm not interested in using the worst bits of religion to bash all of the people that subscribe to it. But if we hope to ever understand the people who are blowing up innocent little girls at pop concerts, we have to be honest about the power of influence religion can wield. These red herring arguments are getting us nowhere.
     

  5. millibyte

    millibyte Maha Guru

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    I apologize for nobody, and aren't you a callous and confused little Trumpkin, equating someone like myself who hates to see anyone innocent suffer with a murderer? But I bet you have the power to see inside my very soul, and what do see? That's right, taqiyya! I don't really hate the suffering of those who aren't my "kind," amirite?

    But that's enough for the time being. I will endeavor (wage an internal struggle, if you will) to end the bickering in this thread.

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/جهد
     
  6. lucidus

    lucidus Ancient Guru

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    You are being an apologist for terrorists when you defend the basis for their action. Their prayers and their qurans are the same as those moderates you people are so fond of. You loony liberals get people killed. I'm only grateful your type isn't calling the suicide bomber a closet pedophile who is sexually frustrated like when Omar Mateen was called a closeted homosexual. Foolish people.
     
  7. yasamoka

    yasamoka Ancient Guru

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    Using Muhammad Asad's translation, since you're not a native Arabic speaker (reference: quranix.org/19#68):

    Quran 19:68
    And so, by thy Sustainer, [on Judgment Day] We shall most certainly bring them forth together with the satanic forces [which impelled them in life]52 and then We shall most certainly gather them, on their knees, around hell;
    Note 52
    See surah 15, first half of note 16; cf. also the reference to the "worship of Satan" in verses 44-45 of the present surah, as well as the corresponding notes 33 and 34. The symbolism of the sinners being linked on Judgment Day "with the satanic forces which impelled them in life" is easily understood if we remember-as has been pointed out in note 10 on 2:14-that the term shaytan ("satan" or "satanic force") is often used in the Qur'an to describe every evil propensity in man's own self. The personal pronoun relates to those who reject the concept of resurrection and life after death.
    Not in Hell. No mention of particular groups of people, let alone Muslims in specific.

    Quran 19:69
    and thereupon We shall, indeed, draw forth from every group [of sinners] the ones that had been most determined in their disdainful rebellion against the Most Gracious:53
    Note 53
    Le., those who have consciously and deliberately rejected the idea of man's responsibility before God and have thus led their weaker, less conscious fellow-men astray will be consigned to the deepest suffering in the hereafter.
    Again, no mention of any particular group of people.

    Quran 19:70
    for, indeed, We know best as to which of them is most deserving of the fires of hell.54

    Note 54
    Lit., "of burning therein": an allusion to the fact that not every one of the sinners will be irrevocably consigned to the suffering described in the Qur'an as hell. (The particle thumma which introduces this clause has here the function of an explanatory conjunction with the preceding statement and is, therefore, best rendered as "for".)
    Again, for a third time, no mention of any particular group of people.

    Quran 19:71
    And every one of you will come within sight of it:55 this is, with thy Sustainer, a decree that must be fulfilled.
    Note 55
    Lit., "none of you but will reach it". According to some of the classical authorities, the pronoun "you" relates to the sinners spoken of in the preceding passages, and particularly to those who refuse to believe in resurrection; the majority of the commentators, however, are of the opinion that all human beings, sinners and righteous alike, are comprised within this address in the sense that all "will come within sight of it": hence my rendering.
    Will come within sight of it. Not enter it. No mention of Muslims yet ...

    Quran 19:72
    And once again:56 We shall save [from hell] those who have been conscious of Us; but We shall leave in it the evildoers, on their knees.57
    Note 56
    For this particular rendering of thumma, see surah 6, note 31.

    Note 57
    I.e., utterly humbled and crushed by their belated realization of God's judgment and of the ethical truths which they had arrogantly neglected in life.
    Those who have been conscious of Us. Muslims or otherwise. "taqwa", the term used in this verse, permeates throughout the Quran and is opposed, along with "birr" (ultimate kindness), to harm and aggression. The requirement is not to be merely a believers, but first and foremost to refrain from harm and aggression. Furthermore, the Quran has a clear injunction against killing of innocents and killing of oneself, so those who are conscious of God cannot possibly subsume the category of suicide bombers...

    As for Quran 3:169-170:
    But do not think of those that have been slain in God's cause as dead. Nay, they are alive! With their Sustainer have they their sustenance,

    "Fi sabil llah" is literally in the path of God. Anyone who sincerely believes and is a good person (does not harm / aggress, is kind to others, etc...), according to the Quran, "fi sabil llah".

    And no, you do not get to read "jihad" as you wish.
    The root word is "jahada" (jhd).
    http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=jhd
    41 occurrences in the Quran. All meaning to strive / maximal effort (strongest).

    Some males we call "jihad" in our Arab communities. Do you think we mean to call them "holy war"?

    When someone puts an effort to accomplish something, we say "bathala juhdan" (put in an effort). When someone gets high grades, we say he is a "mujtahid" (someone who puts effort and gets good out of it). When involving ourselves in religious discourse where we have to use reason and logic to determine specific aspects of our religion, we say this is "ijtihad" (independent reasoning - i.e. struggle to use reason in order to arrive at the healthiest conclusions).

    Kindly don't lie about the Quran. Peace.
     
  8. millibyte

    millibyte Maha Guru

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    Lucidus, I've gotten nothing left to say other than if you ever happen to be in the Western New York area, shoot me a pm and we can throw down in parking lot near my house. Then after our public display of affection, I'll take you out for pizza, my treat. :wanker:
     
  9. lucidus

    lucidus Ancient Guru

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    Yeah sure. Bring your Antifa buddies too.
     
  10. millibyte

    millibyte Maha Guru

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    Only if you bring your brownshirts you wily rascal! :eyebrows:
     

  11. yasamoka

    yasamoka Ancient Guru

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    All Islamophobes here (you know who you are really) are invited to a one-to-one debate-discussion regarding Islam on my TeamSpeak server. We can set rules and such. I don't want any more of this ignorant **** in my feed.

    Those greater than chicken in might are free to shoot me a PM and I'll send you my server address and we can have a great chat.
     
  12. Brasky

    Brasky Ancient Guru

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    No one is afraid of islam, but we(I guess just me, some others prefer to insist that ISIS has nothing to do with islam) are sick of watching muslims attack anyone who disagree's with them and act with such cowardice. You know maybe if you know someone in your mosque is going a little crazy, maybe speak up.
     
  13. millibyte

    millibyte Maha Guru

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    Don't worry, this Friday when all of the local ISIS sympathizers get together after prayers to plot their next dastardly deed (usually around 2:05 EST, just after the weekly flag-burning ritual), I'll personally haul all their a**es to the local precinct. I'll make sure that all of my friends in different cities do the same and we'll put an end to radical islamic terror before the start of happy hour.
     
  14. yasamoka

    yasamoka Ancient Guru

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    Errrm we are?

    https://www.rt.com/usa/346991-muslims-report-extremists-fbi/
    "The director of the FBI says that Muslims report those from their religion whom they fear are turning to radical Islam. His remarks are contrary to a recent statement from Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump.
    "They do not want people committing violence, either in their community or in the name of their faith, and so some of our most productive relationships are with people who see things and tell us things who happen to be Muslim,” FBI Director James Comey said at a press conference."

    https://www.mpac.org/safespaces/
    "Safe Spaces is about empowering communities in order to secure the sanctity of the mosque and Muslim communities in promoting Islamic values of civic engagement, public safety and healthy identity formation.
    We realize that violent extremism is a small problem in number, but incalculable in impact, especially when it comes to American Muslim communities. Safe Spaces is an alternative to both heavy-handed law enforcement tactics and government-led countering violent extremism (CVE) programs. Rather than accepting the notion that the only way to deal with terrorism is through tactics such as widespread surveillance and the use of informants, Safe Spaces relies on community-led and community-driven programs that communities and mosques will benefit from beyond the national security context."

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/157082/islamophobia-understanding-anti-muslim-sentiment-west.aspx
    "Research shows that the U.S. identified more than 160 Muslim-American terrorist suspects and perpetrators in the decade since 9/11, just a percentage of the thousands of acts of violence that occur in the United States each year. It is from this overall collection of violence that "an efficient system of government prosecution and media coverage brings Muslim-American terrorism suspects to national attention, creating the impression - perhaps unintentionally - that Muslim-American terrorism is more prevalent than it really is." Never mind that since 9/11, the Muslim-American community has helped security and law enforcement officials prevent nearly two of every five al Qaeda terrorist plots threatening the United States[2] and that tips from the Muslim-American community are the largest single source of initial information to authorities about these few plots.[3]"
     
  15. IcE

    IcE Don Snow Staff Member

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    Right, because nothing is more damaging to Muslim believers and communities then bigotry and snap judgments. That's the saddest part about these attacks. It drives a huge wedge between peaceful Muslims trying to do the right thing, and those who are outside of that sphere. It's dumb. So the question becomes, what can we all do about this?
     

  16. millibyte

    millibyte Maha Guru

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    Umm, tsk tsk yasamoka. Do you mean "former" FBI-director James Comey? SCROTUS gave him the axe and called him a nut job because he wouldn't scratch his balls, remember? Apparently, two-headed Goebbels, I mean, Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon, both think that Comey's a secret muslim btw, and not the "good" kind either, like the ones that Trump was doing the sword dance with earlier this week. And one more thing, could we refrain from having someone who actually speaks the language of the quran make comments about said text? We've already got folks citing bonafide experts like Sam Harris and Bill Warner aka Billy French up in here, not to mention our own resident zany Czech guy. I wouldn't put too much stock in the latter, though, because I've been told by many people, the smartest and the brightest people, that he has a somewhat czeckered past. God bless the US of A...and nobody else.
     
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