Discussion in 'Games, Gaming & Game-demos' started by CeeJay.dk, Sep 30, 2013.
No - the problem is in thinking that YOU CANT TRUST MAJORITY, BECAUSE YOU CANT TRUST MINORITY, and problem is in thinking THAT ANY LOCK WOULD PREVENT MINORITY FROM DOING IT.
Thas way of thinking is exactly what stands behind every DRM, mod disabled game, console gaming and so on. This is way to fail.
Also who said cheaters will not debug reshade in ollydbg and will not make some jump that skips blacklist \ whitelist function?
Im pretty much positive they will do it anyway, and instead of stopping them using it for cheats lock will stop us from making games better. So why bother? There is no reason its just a twisted idea that should be gone.
Or now you would try to protect code with obfuscators and crypters so that could would be slow and in case if few years later everyone of current devs will drop it, nobody would be able to reverse and inprove tool easy way?
THe only reason SweetFX exist and became so popular is because FXAA injector and SMAA injectors developers NEVER LOCKED ANYTHING and never protected their code!
Imagine if they did hardcoded effects and disabled it for some games to protect their code and games!
Now this overprotection and care about cheats gone too far, just like DRM and all that stuff that ruins PC gaming.
PC is about freedom of choice (be it good or evil). When you locking something on pc - you killing pc as platform, you killing creativity you killing freedom and you killing possibilities of something good.
Oh, try that, you'll run into some interesting surprises. Hehe.
You can't really compare it to the FXAA/SMAA injectors: Those were written for the purpose of antialiasing and were not meant for what people did with them (SweetFX), which makes them very limited in what you can do/cheat. Now ReShade on the other hand was developed to give as much freedom as possible, which however means I do give the user features which are easy to exploit and thus dangerous.
The reason we are looking into the encryption stuff is because we're afraid that ReShade loses its multiplayer compatibility and gets a ban and if it's only because of a single idiot.
So, basically, all it takes is one idiot who hacks into the injector and makes it possible to cheat with it, which, i hope you don't delude yourself, will happen whether you protect the code or you don't. The only variable in this is time, outcome is pretty much a constant. My suggestion would be to make it either easily detectable, so the anti-cheat systems could block it, or undetectable, which imho would be bad. BTW there are a couple of questions i have:
Does the injector modify the executable or the process of the game? And if yes do all the features require that? And the last hypothetical question - would it be possible to separate the more complex and "cheatable" effects from the basic ones, as to make basic undetectable in order to make it possible to improve the picture quality, and the "cheatable" easily detectable so as to make them unusable in multiplayer games with anti-cheat? Because i don't see why anyone would need injector-based DOF in a multiplayer mode, where it would make the game harder, not better.
I feel you, but like Crosire said the problem is not the gamers or the freedom. The problem is this: one, single, idiot. That is all it takes to make developers ban ReShade. So just because you wanted to use DoF or any other effect, all of a sudden you might have to give up on ReShade completely. Because that is how majority of developers see things. "Oh, what is this? OMG HAX! Ban the sh*t out of it." And we are just "the community", no amount explanation will undo things after water has crossed under the bridge. Do you seriously think developers will give a damn about our desire to enhance our gaming experience? Even NVIDIA did not fix its stupid LOD bias bug for months, the forums are filled with negative user feedback. But no, NVIDIA does not give a damn. Because Mr. NVIDIA is an international multi-billion dollar company and we are just simple peasants/customers. And hell, we are talking about multiplayer games here. I don't EVEN want to talk about EA and any companies affiliated with EA. Everybody knows how this story ends, every-single-time. Of course not all of the companies are evil. (e.g. CD Projekt, Valve, inXile, Obsidian etc.) But like I said unfortunately majority of them are douchebags and have autism when it comes to customer support. "...Dear Customer, thank you for contacting us. We'll look into blabla and reply to you as soon as possible bla blabla..." (Oh, of course there is no reply.)
Anyway, what I mean is yeah freedom of PC gaming, modding etc. these are all lovely things which make this platform unique in its own way. But in this case we the community must be realistic, not romantic. This is why CeeJay and Crosire needs take measures beforehand. Think it like this: Knife is a multi-purpose tool. One might use it to cut bread or stab people. What are they doing is they are making sure that nobody will be able to stab people with it. In this case maybe they are dulling the knife a little bit, I get it. But in my opinion it is better than not having a knife at all.
No, the game itself is still not altered at all. I'm using a bunch of tricks to get around that. The only thing ReShade does is redirect calls the games do and run own code before returning to the original target: It only "adds" additional code, but doesn't "modify" the games code or memory.
This shouldn't be something anticheat software finds suspicious, but that doesn't help if it gets added to their blacklists.
And yes, that separation is what we have in mind. Disable some features in multiplayer games (or mode, if that can be detected separatly somehow), which leaves basic color correction (pretty much what SweetFX has now), but prevents access to stuff that could be misused.
A serious hacker with too much time and good skills in reverse engineering would still be able to crack it, I mean it's simply impossible to fully protect against that, but:
a) I would be surprised if anybody does it, because it would be easier for somebody like that to write his own injector for the game targeted and
b) Even if somebody does it, we can atleast say that we activly did something to prevent it.
Instead of locking it in afraid that some idiot would use it to cheat that will lead to ban everywhere you should just write few emails and use forums to get in touch with majors that could ban in theirs systems like Valve with VAC and Evenbalance with PunkBuster and some specific devs of specific game and ensure them that tool is ok and used for fair thing, contact Kotaku, IGN, Gamespot and more magazine and make them write a good world about tool for it to be widely recognisable, make all the sources codes availalbe to public, and warn developers of game that if they will detect some cheater with it, instead of banning tool they should detect components this user use for cheating, like specific shader file that could be identified.
You dont need to ban and block anything its concern of developers and you just need to widespead good reputation of tool and make it recognisable by industry and no one will ever try to ban it even if it will be used for cheating.
After all it has architecture - it should load exact file to chain load others and by this exact file any anticheat system may trace end file with dangerous code and ban only it if such hack would be widespread.
Also your tool iif you will not lock it, could be quite usefull in game development as well so you better try to think how to promote it as good tool to prevent evil unfair bans, instead of turning evil yourself.
And you overestimating cheaters, they dont need reshade for their regular things and like i said before - its popular and popular means detactable and detacble means that cheater should stay away from it. I mean pawn cheaters, but there are cheater kings, who doing all the hacks, and they have plenty of time to remove any of your protections (WHICH, I REMIND, LEAD TO WORSE PERFORMANCE AND STABILITY IN MOST OF CASE) and turn this tool into weapon anyway.
Also you should take a note about Barbara Streizand effect - she tried to cover her house after very few people found it, but once she started doing it she accidentally made everyone aware of it and this causes opposite effect of what she tried to achieve.
This means that by talking and caring to much about how this tool could be a cheat device you giving dangerouse ideas and pushing cheaters to use it, and you also challenging them, so now there would be more people who would do that than if you never cared and talked about that.
Pretty same thing always happen with DRM protected games - as more intrusive DRM as less piracy and as better sales publishers think, but it always ends up in fiasco where people demand refunds and leave bad reviews because they cant properly use game they paid for, whiile pirates always remove any protection and keep using game wiht less troubles.
So just please stop doing, you only doing it worse, thats how people psychology works. Do a good public image for tool instead of protecting it techincally, social protections of something good works much better.
Chance of ban is very slim, and even that will happen with good public image you would need just to pull few strings into public and ask people for support and mass-rage will force most of devs to step back and whitelist it.
I am so sorry if this a stupid question, but is ReShade available yet. I looked it up and all I found was some resizing program. I would love to check that program out.
+1 (but I think it's not so simple)
I don't think it's that simple either. The usual response you get is: "If it modifies the game it can get you banned. Deal with it.". But:
Good point. You got me thinking, I'll discuss it with CeeJay a bit more.
No, it's in closed beta currently. Open beta follows soon.
Will we be able to see it in open beta? Also is it applicable to all games?
Are you still searching for an Injector that covers the SweetFX shader stack and Windows 8.1? Are you a simple end-user who just wants a simple, stable and secure solution? Or are you even a shader-dev/guru who is currently waiting for reShade?
If so, I might have developed the perfect piece of :david: for you!
Known as the creator of the GEM Injector for Rome 2 Total War, I am bringing you now GEMFX which introduces many new features and is finally ready to be used on Windows 8.1.
While not being as developer friendly as the upcoming reShade, GEMFX comprises the following
features to please your gamer's heart::
> DirectX11 Support (currently 32bit apps)
> Windows 7, Windows 8.0 and Windows 8.1 Support
> SweetFX Stack included
> Boulator features included (Film Grain & Gaussian)
> Offline Configurator
> In-Game Menu (currently only to load user-presets and basic functions)
> Experimental UI-By-Pass
> Shaders in Memory (Stable and Secure)
> Low Performance Impact
> Pre-Defined TrueColor and Realistic Shader
> Blur Shader (Tilt Shift)
> HBO Shader (CA)
> Dirt Lens Effects
> Ambiente Light
> Smart Film Grain
> Dynamic Lightning
> Advanced God Rays
> Advanced Anamorphic Flares
> Advanced Lens Flares
Though (due to my current dev environment) GEMFX is currently not working for 64bit games, it will be the next job on the list (maybe one or two days).
Well, enough words, here are some impressions::
You can pick up the installer and more details here
Make sure to follow the install instructions and be patient and understanding since it is a fresh release
Damn, i love the Dirty Lens effect.
Awesome work. Really liked it.
Looks cool but will it get you banned :/. I would really like to use this in tf2.
I think you are exaggerating Voodooman.
All the shader code will still be open-source and it will still be possible to write your own effects. Few people other than myself have done so in the almost 3 years SweetFX have existed, but it will still be just as easy .. no in fact easier to write shaders for ReShade.
All I'm saying is that if someone writes a shader that requires the depthbuffer, then they will have to develop it using a whitelisted game or demo to test it and when they think they have something good they can ask Crosire or myself to verify and approve their code and sign it with an encryption key that will enable it to be used with other games than just the whitelisted ones.
Only the stamp of approval will be encrypted - nothing else.
And sure, because no software is hack proof then it will probably also be possible to disassemble and modify ReShade to remove such protection - but the intention is not to stop all hacks (because that's impossible) but to make it not worth the effort.
With signed shaders (only the shaders that use depth - the others need no protection) it will be easier for a cheat-maker to simply modify the game .exe which will also give complete control over everything the game does, instead of just access to the depth texture.
Why get a little with a lot of effort when you can get it all with the same or less effort?
And even if someone skilled enough decided it was worth the effort, they would have to change the file to do it. This would change it's file signature which would make the new hacked version easy to detect by anti-cheat tools.
That also makes it possible for us to defend ReShade if someone should claim it did something bad - the file signature would reveal if it was an official reshade version or a hacked one that we had nothing to do with.
The signed shaders idea is really more to protect against individual that just learned how to throw a bit shader code together and decided to make a simple cheat because reshade makes it so simple to make your own shaders.
The minor inconvenience it is for developers to send Crosire or myself a PM or email is a small price to pay for the ease of mind it is that SweetFX won't suddenly be banned by VAC or Punkbuster, because some fool wanted to write a quick cheat and shared it with some friends, who shared it with their friends and then one day thousands of gamers wakes to to find themselves banned from their favorite games because someone in charge decided SweetFX was too dangerous.
SweetFX and ReShade needs to stay safe so we can all keep using it without fear.
try to run it on two simulator I use, FSX & P3D, the priomero in dx10 and second in DX11 and did not get any results, it is possible you are doing something wrong, is there any key to activate and descative.
intente hacerlo funcionar en dos simulador que utilizo, FSX & P3D, el priomero en dx10 y el segundo en dx11 y no obtuve ningun resultado, es posible que este haciendo algo mal, hay alguna tecla que active y descative.
I also tried to use GEMFX and had it not work. Every game I've tried so far will crash or GEMFX will not work. I use Windows 8.1 x64. Here is what the GEMFX file read after trying to use it with Warframe x32:
EDIT: DX11/10 lead to the crash above, and GEMFX doesn't seem to work with the dx9 version.
EDIT2: Now the DX9 version is crashing to.
It would have a similar classification such as radeon pro (not sure if you are allowed to use that in tf2 though). I do not access any depth buffer for AA or DoF effects. However, you know we can never guarantee that.
Do you have any GEMFX.log file. Make sure to follow the instructions on the website I linked! It was tested for quiet a while now by the TWC community and there is already information available on that website what is required for you to run it. Further, if you try to run it on games that have been developed for dx10 only (which should be only a hand full or a maybe such a specific simulator), then it might not work. You can check the key-sets in the GEMFX_readme.txt or set it with the configurator. In default F9 toggles the shaders.
I will check the files again but basically it means you did not extract all the important files (unless I missed to pack one...).
EDIT::I checked the files and it should have all required files included. You might have deleted or renamed one?
EDIT2::The specific dx9 port (adding those features) will come later, since those implementations have no conflict with win8.1/dx11.2 and users could use all kinds of injectors already. Priority now is to release the compatible version for 64bit games (which should not be hard to do).
I tried to reinstall, and the same error happens. The files installed are as listed(I installed to an empty folder to check this):