Stuttering 5600 xt red devil

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon' started by Zogran, Jan 29, 2020.

  1. elemen7al

    elemen7al Member

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    Gaming > Global > Advanced > Tessellation Mode > Override Application Settings
    > OFF

    I had this in apex legends this fixed it for me ^
     
  2. Zogran

    Zogran Member

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    Had little time to test today but after applying all the tweaks it seems tot be a lot vetter.
    Alsof have my ram up to 2133 my pc seems tot agree with that to :cool:
    Ill go on tommorow with extra tests and benchmarks to make sure its all stable
     
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  3. bobblunderton

    bobblunderton Master Guru

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    A few things from reading this thread:
    D3D9 etc wrapped into Vulkan - yes performance penalty just like when we first got 'glide wrappers' though those games wrapped weren't too complicated.
    Direct X 9 causes textures that are loaded into VIDEO card's ram to be MIRRORED in system RAM, this can also hurt your RAM performance just a bit while it's caching and unloading assets, and the system is already very memory bandwidth limited.
    For the record, DX 10 and 11 don't mirror to VRAM. So use those when possible for systems with 8gb of RAM or less.
    I'd reckon @Zogran you are bottle-necking on RAM performance leaving the CPU scheduler basically issuing WAIT commands for the program, causing hitching, until it can get everything loaded into RAM and the CPU cache. 3xxx i5 and 3xxx i7 difference in the scheduler / on-chip cache amount due to hyper-threading not being there causes quite a bit more hitching on the i5. This even showed up recently on Rockstar games GTAV and Red Dead Redemption II benchmarks for i5's of 9xxx and 8xxx product stack. Red Dead II was patched if I remember correctly, to help with this discrepancy.
    Fast RAM will help the system, but keep in mind there are limits to the integrated memory controller, too. I'd reckon it can do 2133mhz though. That being said, my old Haswell refresh system (i7 4790k) handled 2400mhz ddr3 dual channel on four sticks at cas latency 11 with no issue. 4 sticks of single-rank (matched, thanks ebay) RAM if I remember correctly. Fast RAM is super-duper helpful when you have all those cores busy, so the scheduler can get what it needs and keep the CPU fed nicely, avoiding wait-times where the cpu has cores literally doing NOTHING because they're waiting on cache to be flushed and then re-loaded with info for the new stuff to process.

    Folks can see the benefit of Hyper Threading on Nehelam/first-gen i7 and newer class i7 chips by flipping off hyper threading in BIOS, running a 100k~120k+ population city in Cities Skylines (doesn't everyone have this by now?), all while running Winamp (or another media player) in the background. Then repeating doing this same thing with Hyperthreading on. The extra cache and 'virtual cores' showing up as a 2nd thread per core allows the scheduler to acquire processes to work on from the OS and work ahead of time before the CPU core is done with it's last job (per core), keeping those wait times between processes down, and hitching at bay. This is also why encoding, physics and file zip/unzip operations are helped by (more cores and) memory bandwidth so much - because of all those super quick operations and the inherent 'wait' time between them.

    @JonasBeckman seems to know what he speaks of, some good advice.

    @Zogran No crime in not having the ability to throw money at it and hence keeping it going longer in-stead. Been there, done that. Kept my 4790k for almost 5 years until the sub-station local to us decided to go for broke, and blew up. The computer didn't like that too much.
    Maybe fortune will smile on thee, now that it's tax time. That having been said, you won't see a night and day difference on newer processors in per-core speeds (you will see some though), you will see it in memory bandwidth, you will see it in cache speeds and scheduler enhancements, and this will reflect in your 1% and 0.1% lows on benchmarks and game-play impressions.
    Until then just make sure to close that web browser out, and any other things that hit performance (such as even certain monitoring programs or Apple software), before running a game.
    For the record, I noticed a BIG difference when going from 4790k to Ryzen 3700x, not so much in 'per core speed', but in over-all smoothness and over-all power of the PC to do tasks I needed. Anything that can use more than 4 cores also went much, much faster, more than 2x.
    Rent, food and car insurance being paid for is much more important than a PC upgrade though, especially while the old one is still functional, so no crime in that. Just set 20~25$ a week aside for that, and don't go out shopping more than you have to, use powdered drink mix to save money on drinks, and avoid buying candy, junk food, or fast food. Live on sandwiches or similar if needed to help save money; or if you smoke ciggies, roll your own to save money (a 50$ rolling machine will save a ton, but requires effort and a bit of time). Fast food is expensive, even if drinks are only a dollar, for if you bought one everytime you went out or every day, you'd be spending at-least 20~30$ plus tax a month.

    Also, DO download latencymon, it's a latency monitor, you should not have values over '1000' on your system if it's working correctly. If you do have high values, that'll likely be the cause of your stutter. Run DDU and remove and replace the display driver when possible as this is often - though not always - the cause. Other drivers can cause it, too. Values under 400 are to be considered good, under 250 is considered best-case values. My i7 system had values of no higher than 80~110 at worst-case, though that was very good for example.
    If this happens even on an x299 or x99 system with a 1070 or 1080 (as of 18 months ago I had a case of that from someone), it would make you want to upgrade even then.

    --Good luck!
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2020
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  4. Zogran

    Zogran Member

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    Thanks again for another interesting read :eek:

    https://imgshare.io/image/naamloos.Gwsk5

    Ran it for 4 minutes and seems to be ok.
    Bumped up my Cpu to 4,3 ghz and overal performance went up a little and the stutters are almost gone.
    To bad my cpu wont even boot at 4,4 :confused::confused:

    Gonna try a little more thinkering but at some point there will be no other option than to upgrade.
     

  5. anticupidon

    anticupidon Ancient Guru

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    Sorry OP for your troubles. Really, I was almost decided to buy the same card, but I was so pissed off how AMD handled the launch and the latest hour BIOS update move was the straw the broke the camel back.
    So, I am sorry for your performance issues, but I am glad that I didn't get to be an early adopter and follow the trend of buying the latest.
    Again, hope that you have received good advice here and your card starts to show it's potential.
    Cheers
     
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  6. Zogran

    Zogran Member

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    Yeh the launch was messy buy couldnt wait any longer to upgrade my GTX 970 it had been near dead for a year :eek:
    Since i have a freesynch monitor i tought is give the red team a chance for the first time in years.
    The card itself doesn't dissapoint at all, but my pc cant keep up with it:mad:.

    Another problem just popped up tought .
    I saw some color banding and when i checked my color setting it was set to 6 bpp.
    When i changed it to 8 bpp i got a freeze after a few minutes.
    Tried again after reboot and again the same issue.

    Read about some stuff on bad dp cables but could that really be the issue ?
     
  7. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    Potentially, there's discussions around scaling issues with Navi GPU's possibly also very sensitive to certain monitor hardware and for the display port the cabling has no version as such but certified cables are guaranteed to work with the specs of for example DP1.4 and up to 8k whereas cheaper including monitor bundled cables can be a bit problematic depending on wiring.

    The worst ones though this seems very problematic is a few using a active pin 20 I think is how it went which sends additional voltage into the GPU thus causing it to suffer hardware damage even if the strength isn't that high but apparently upon testing quite a number of cables were found to fall below certification criteria though that might also be as to tell people to buy these certified cables which are often also more expensive even if you skip the whole hype around isolation, EMI and plated connectors and what not since it's still a digital signal and it sends whole packets, you get a signal or you don't there's no variance.


    Length also matters same as HDMI but unless you're wiring up a TV then 1.5 - 3 meters should be fine. (Think 2 or 2.5 was the recommended though.)

    Not exactly an expert on this but I was very curious and it made a difference here but the cable I was using before was very old from a earlier bundle with the previous display I was using so that could have been a part of why it caused some problems too.
    Color bits are an odd one though even if it's a older display using FRC doing 6+2 for 8 instead of true 8 bit it's weird to hear it causing problems. (My own display is a somewhat aging Dell 2016 model fairly lower-end 8-bit with the FRC dither stuff for "10-bit" but not really.)

    Chances are it might be the display drivers too messing with scaling or how the GPU handles scaling or the display EDID and other info if the GPU isn't taking over the way the display is scaled again I'm not much of a tech person on this though I've seen it suggested but there's also the various driver bugs in newer 2020 sets ranging from ongoing multi-monitor issues, enhanced sync and very finicky freesync support and what seems to affect newer displays too which I would imagine should be better built than the earlier hardware here unless something's very off in the Navi GPU hardware and that seems unlikely. (Would have been discovered if it's something like that or I'd hope at least.)


    EDIT: So yeah lower end cables can have varying quality of it's wires if it even has full wiring including what should be a inactive 20th pin but on some (several?) randomly bought and tested cables well these were active and they send power into the GPU which can cause problems up to and including hardware damage as I understood it.

    Or it's something in the drivers again possibly some issue surrounding GPU scaling or even non-GPU scaling and how that's handled it's well it's messy as ever and it's kinda hard to confirm either.
    (Switching the cable out in my case though mostly eliminated idle black screen issues though "black screen" is a very encompassing term for a good number of what seems to be different errors with the same effect.)


    EDIT:
    https://www.displayport.org/cables/how-to-choose-a-displayport-cable-and-not-get-a-bad-one/

    And some other info it's nothing major but yes cheap cables can be a thing and might cause problems though I would recommend checking up and avoiding overpaying for a "premium" cable before trying out changing this unless warranty and returns are good and allows for sending it back if it doesn't help. :)
    (Article itself is a bit old by this point but still has useful info.)
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2020
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  8. anticupidon

    anticupidon Ancient Guru

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    Well, that's a bummer.
    Apart from driver issues one has to deal with whole EDID and cable detection...
    Really, a downer. Ruins your day just to deal with this.
     
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  9. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    Trying to understand it a bit too but there's so much varying information and reports and suggestions that really shouldn't factor in but somehow seem to help many pointing towards the driver situation and overall issues since even 19.7.1 (Navi being supported initially.) so trying to keep track of what works, got fixed or regressed or broke or now also what broke on Vega and Polaris (Also facing black screen problems though this should be entirely driver and software.) kinda hard to track it all. Tough for AMD too since well picking up a NVIDIA 1000 series Pascal or 2000 series Turing and not having problems is quite tempting even if the Navi GPU's strike a good deal between price and performance but if functionality just isn't there then it doesn't really matter for the consumer and depending on pricing a 2060 or 2070 might not be too much extra or even be cheaper and within similar performance to the 5700's plus well the other issues with the performance scaling and what else.

    Glad that the Adrenaline 2020 drivers are out and that focus on fixes and other additions are landing in the January drivers now but if there is some software issue there's more to be done and if there turns out to be a hardware defect then that's going to be pretty bad.
    (Some can be solved in software though and due to the flexibility of the firmware and micro code updates functionality can also be changed or issues worked around.)


    EDIT: Well the black screen stability problem itself has like half a dozen or so suggested remedies by this point and it's not really possible to point to any one as a solution since some of them help others do nothing and it just varies from one report to another or the problem is so random it seems to help and then it's back.
     
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  10. Zogran

    Zogran Member

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    A real nummer indeed.
    Gonna try another DP cable ...certified one...Just to see if there is any difference.

    Heres hoping AMD will stay on top of their drivers to fix them:confused:
     

  11. Zogran

    Zogran Member

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    I dont know if its a placebo effect or not but after plugging in my new 8k 60hz (overkill i know) everything feels a lot smoother.
    And i can enable freesynch and 8bpp color depth without everhing freezing up

    Still have the stutters but at an acceptable level thanks to all of you !
    Going to save up for a new or 2nd hand cpu/mobo/ram combo that should fix it.

    For now case closed and thanks again everyone!!!:cool:
     
  12. Zogran

    Zogran Member

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    Your saying that's my bottleneck,?
     
  13. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    RAM speed scales the infinity fabric which does improve performance and DDR4 in 3600 (1800 Mhz effective thus also 1800 Mhz infinity fabric on 1:1 timings which is also it's regular cap.) with as low timings as possible reduces the latency but that's more Zen2 and the chiplet design (Latency goes up a bit as something of a downside.) than Zen1 though it still affects things a bit from my understanding with RAM speed and timings doing a surprising number on overall performance in some games which really surprised me at first. :)

    Loading speed and such sure but seeing the overall framerate differ from DDR3 1600 to DDR4 3800 was new particularly when it's more than 10% overall performance or more in some cases although that test was on a newer Intel system so it doesn't have the AMD Zen specifics although it did quite handily prove the performance benefits of faster memory. :D

    EDIT: As to the 1500X it has four cores it's still good although some games or software want more.
    3.5 Ghz isn't bad either for it's clock speeds.
     
  14. Smough

    Smough Master Guru

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    You have a massive CPU bottleneck, so if anything else is causing stutter, that CPU will only add insult to injury.
     
  15. Smough

    Smough Master Guru

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    Except the 1500X is an 8 threaded CPU and will barely hit 100% at any game. He has an i5 with only 4 threads, considering he got that GPU to play newer, demanding games, his CPU is hitting 100% usage while his GPU is taking a nap. For the love of all, don't come with this ignorance that is "equal" or "equivalent". Tech changes and architecture changes, it's not "equal" one bit and the 1500X is closer to an i7 4790K or even better than a poor i5 with giga-overclock, which won't do much on modern games.
     

  16. Smough

    Smough Master Guru

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    You literally need an i7. An i7 with a bit of less frequency will outperform your i5 at any scenario, you are severely CPU limited, you only have 4 threads, even the much newer i3 9100 bottlenecks GPU's at certain games.
     
  17. Undying

    Undying Ancient Guru

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    Im sure it will be a night and day difference if he gets some used cheap i7 3770 to replace the i5.
     
  18. Zogran

    Zogran Member

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    Looking for a used 3770k in the dutch second hand market at the moment .
    Neede more powerrrrr!
     
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  19. The_Amazing_X

    The_Amazing_X Master Guru

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    If you want an advice just go to with a X79 board and a 3930k

    Or with like 200£ you can get ryzen 1600 32g ddr4 and a b350 board

    those 3770k used are allot of money.
     
  20. Undying

    Undying Ancient Guru

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    He should look for cpu support maybe he can get equivalent xeon, they are quite a bit cheaper.
     

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