Steam users may be able to resell their games in the future!

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by H83, Sep 20, 2019.

  1. Aura89

    Aura89 Ancient Guru

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    I feel you're not grasping the fact of history.

    Could this be anti-consumer? Absolutely. Digital games could have come and been just as expensive as before with small sales just as before. But that's not what happened. And if we were in that situation i'd agree 100% with allowing people to sell their digital licenses. But again, that's not where we are at.

    The two questions there are:

    1. Do you want amazing sales?

    2. Do you want to be able to sell your digital license?

    If yes to both, you can't have it both ways, it's one or the other.

    It's fine if you want #2, as long as you don't expect #1.

    Pro-consumer can mean different things depending on your values. I understand why people have this "idea" that pro-consumer means allowing consumers to do what they want with their license, i do. But the reality is, that has consequences most people either do not realize, do not want to understand or don't believe will happen. This is why to me it's definitely not pro-consumer, because you give one thing to a select few people who will sell their games, and take away deep discount sales from everyone. That's pro-selfish and pro-shortsightedness.

    In a perfect world, you could have amazing sales, and be able to sell your digital license, and that world could POSSIBLY get closer of sales of "used digital licenses" has money go back to the developers/publishers guaranteed. But until that option is actually talked about, then it doesn't exist.

    Edit: And if you do want #2, then i'd really wonder how you don't want #1. #2 is about being able to sell your content and lower your cost of something else. #1 is lowering cost across the board.

    Either way it seems like we'll continue to go around in circles about our points, so;

    Only question i have for you:

    Do you believe that if selling digital games comes out, that major sales will continue to happen?

    If yes, then we have nothing to discuss, as you fall under the line of people who don't believe the reality of the situation. Sure, a miracle might happen and somehow developers/publishers decide to continue doing steep discounts.........a miracle.

    If no, then i don't know what's being discussed as you're freely stating you want to give up on having huge sales for the temporary influx of "Oh look at all these games i can sell"
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2019
  2. D3M1G0D

    D3M1G0D Ancient Guru

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    Yes, I'd be fine with the second option. The ability to sell my games should make up for the loss of sales (and it's not like Steam sales are that amazing nowadays anyway). It's not just dollars and cents either - I'd love to gift someone a game in my list if I had the choice. The freedom to transfer my digital assets would be more than worth it, IMO.

    I think this cuts to the heart of what it means to own games. Do you actually own the game you buy or is Steam simply allowing you to download and play it for a fee? If Steam was actually a subscription service (like Valve claimed) then I can see their stance as reasonable, since you don't own anything. However, if you are actually buying the game then you should have the right to sell, loan or transfer it.

    This would be a new form of digital rights management, but from the consumer side. Of course others may have a different opinion, and that's fine as well. As I said, I really doubt Valve would allow this so arguing this is a moot point at this stage.
     
  3. TheDeeGee

    TheDeeGee Ancient Guru

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    I would like to stick with amazing sales then.

    I'm not a day 1 buyer and only buy heavy discount games from 0 to 15 bucks.

    If games gonna stay 60 bucks i will resort to piracy to get my discounts back.
     
  4. Yxskaft

    Yxskaft Maha Guru

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    It also sucks that only one person can access the Steam library at a time. Back in the physical era, your whole family could share the library on the shelf. I was playing Return to Castle Wolfenstein and my bro was playing Age of Empires 2. The digital era is just full of restrictions everywhere.

    And I don't see how people still can regard the Steam sales as being good. And IMO, the games keep their release prices for much longer, the sales merely bringing the prices down to where they should be after being out for a year or more. New or popular games see 25% discounts at the most, 50% or more being for old games or games that have had underperforming sales.
     

  5. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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    What if any such res-sell gives part of money to developers? Where devs will not get money because nobody buy old games (most interested has already bought), they can get some money with re-sells.
     
  6. Dribble

    Dribble Active Member

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    If this goes ahead then steam will stop selling games and instead it'll just be a subscription service same way as the music/tv industry has gone. Instead of buying games we'll just have to pay for all the subscription services (steam will have some games, epic some, blizzard some) just like we pay for netflix, amazon prime, now tv, etc.

    In the end it will cost us no less - it's not like games companies are making a fortune and can survive on half the income while producing the same quality of games.
     
  7. Stormyandcold

    Stormyandcold Ancient Guru

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    We will push for digital goods to be treated as physical and will also push for accounts to be fully transferable to family/friends upon death. This includes the ability to freely gift any games owned to others without charge.
     
  8. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    No. More expensive games cost money. Better games don't cost more money. More expensive does not equal better.
     
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  9. H83

    H83 Ancient Guru

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    Used sales of digital games aren´t going to kill the gaming industry like some members are implying. Yes they would make less money but that´s it. After all in the physical world we can buy almost everything used and companies didn´t go bankrupt because of that.

    So true. Games cost a lot of money to produce nowadays but most of that money is wasted in superfluous stuff while gameplay is neglected...
     
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  10. Fender178

    Fender178 Ancient Guru

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    True that it wouldn't kill AAA devs with used digital sales but it could kill Indie devs though.
     

  11. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    Indie games are way cheaper though, especially on sales, so most people don't bother selling them. You don't get much. AAA games is what people really want to sell. Anything else is just not worth it.

    Oh, also, if common sense hurts your business model, then you can hardly blame common sense, now can you. Selling used books is killing book authors. Selling used BluRay is killing the movies industry. Selling CDs is killing the music industry... Well, if selling something I own is "killing" you, how come you're filthy rich then, eh? And besides, do we actually have hard data on how many people actually do sell their books and BluRays and physical video games? Talk is easy. What does reality look like?
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2019
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  12. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    It will hurt all publishers though, how much remains to be seen and by indie he may mean non AAA games rather than proper indie games. These games can still be expensive and most of the developers are very vulnerable to losing any money.

    The big ones like EA etc...will be able to handle it and will likely close studios and/or cancel the riskier IP's.

    TBH i don't see it even happening. It wouldn't take much for Valve to make it possible for your to sell your games, but make it impractical to do so.
     
  13. D3M1G0D

    D3M1G0D Ancient Guru

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    It would lead to a massive shift in the digital goods industry as a whole. If digital games can be resold then so can music, movies, e-books or any other digital media that you can buy (and would probably also include microtransactions and digital goods bought in apps). Needless to say, the industry will fight this change tooth and claw - no way are they giving resell rights back to consumers after they've worked so hard to take them away.
     
  14. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    I really don't think it would.

    They would just create a minimum price you can legally sell it for and the market dies.
     
  15. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    Games do cost a lot to make, but that cost is a lot less than it used to be...even five years ago.

    Some of this is because publishers and developers of the top tier games and franchises started:

    1) Building their own cross-platform game engines
    2) Diversifying locations of teams globally for one project
    3) Middleware has improved to the point that even a 16 year old can code a game
    4) Publishing online, reducing cost-to-market and has allowed a lot of alterations to be made to alter the impact and marketing/advertising the game has. Simple simple simple stuff like the 'cover-art' of a game in a virtual kiosk can be altered and changed every hour across multiple market vectors, to see which one is more successful. This is done without contacting a Printer/labelling company, without needing the change the barcode, without needing to change the 'message' the game needs to have with the press. It's quite extraordinary to think how this simple point makes such a difference to the cost-to-market.

    Rockstar is an interesting one, as they have their own game engine which has soooo much tech inside of it, that is only of use to them and their games. You cannot create a game like GTAV or RDR using Unreal Engine, for example, because the cost of actually making the game is astronomical to begin with, but trying to rewrite someone elses game engine? Forgeddit. Use your own.

    Rockstar also control their own marketing, and I think is the only company at that publisher than have the right to do that.

    But my point: Games do not cost what they used to cost, so don't believe the hype.
     

  16. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    Why? You can sell your physical console games to this day. There's no "minimum price" or anything. You can sell your PS4 games at whatever price you want.
     
  17. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    At a physical shop, and at whatever price they want they want not what you want.

    Digital games would have to be sold at a digital shop, if that shop was Steam then they could enforce minimum pricing so you are not competing again the "retail" version.

    I'm sure G2A and other places could set up a grey area store though.
     
  18. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    Why only at a physical shop? You can sell directly to other people. No one is stopping you. Obviously less convenient, but you can.

    Well, that would be more convenient, but why should you be prevented from selling them to people directly if you can?
     
  19. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    Yeah, i suppose that's true. You can set the price and see if anyone buys.

    I'm not saying anyone should be prevented....well i actually i believe they should be, but if Valve is forced to allow it then that would 100% have to be a digital shop. You can't just copy your Steam games to a disc and send it to someone.

    Anyone got ideas who this would work, i only have two.

    1: Valve complies and adds a option to transfer the license to another Steam user. This is done at your own risk and if you pay someone money and they don't give you the game or if you transfer the game and you don;t get the money you are on your own.

    2: Valve sets up a store, but obviously can't have that store competing against the "real" store so you would not be able to sell the game for less than they are. Even then, they would be making less money as you would also get a cut so you could enforce a rule that you would have to sell the game for what the current full price is plus what you want. Now pre-owned games become more expensive than non pre-owned.

    Option 2 seems less likely to me as it will mean alot of work if it's not a worldwide ruling, if Valve are forced to do this they will likely bank on the fact that most people will want to do this, but when they find out they can't do it directly through Steam they will back off.
     
  20. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    You actually don't want people to own the stuff they bought? Are you serious right now?
     

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