Star Citizen - Squadron 42 - Upcoming PC Space Sim.

Discussion in 'Games, Gaming & Game-demos' started by Major Melchett, Oct 10, 2012.

  1. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    1: It's not a game
    2: It's their right to act however they want, whether your subjective opinion clashes with their objective opinion, or not - but I agree it is not worth arguing with someone's subjective opinion, so I do not.
    3: I think that it is perfectly acceptable to point out the obvious to those who do not see a brick wall, when they are running into one.

    Fine to enjoy something. Go ahead...but it is not a game...perhaps an interactive simulation on how to waste money? Not sure, but most certainly not a game.

    False equivalence. And...I sincrely hope you do not interact in this simulation, believing you are some sort of actual astronut, because you are not and never will be. Which, I suppose is very similar to this attempt at being a game, actually being a game with real developers and real publishing houses, with real deadlines and real reviews and real launch times.

    It is completely your right to spend your money in anyway you wish - but this is not a game, until it gets a release with critical reviews (and until that time) - you are funding someone elses' personal pet project with no guarantees and no promises.

    I've said this many times (probably in this thread) if they had a decent business plan, they would not have gone to kickstarter, because the bank would have lent them the money and put them in touch with business partners to push projects to completion (to protect their interests) and it would have been released by now, with TONNES of feedback to ascertain what sort of functionality they need to focus on for the future.

    Instead of guesswork, you would have credible data to plot out a real game with real game mechanics that the fans asked for.

    Not even an office temp is this petulant.
     
  2. XenthorX

    XenthorX Ancient Guru

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    "A video game is an electronic game that involves interaction with a user interface to generate visual feedback on a two- or three-dimensional video display device such as a touchscreen, virtual reality headset or monitor/TV set. Since the 1980s, video games have become an increasingly important part of the entertainment industry, and whether they are also a form of art is a matter of dispute."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game
    "
    A game is a structured form of play, usually undertaken for entertainment or fun, and sometimes used as an educational tool.[1] Games are distinct from work, which is usually carried out for remuneration, and from art, which is more often an expression of aesthetic or ideological elements. However, the distinction is not clear-cut, and many games are also considered to be work (such as professional players of spectator sports or games) or art (such as jigsaw puzzles or games involving an artistic layout such as Mahjong, solitaire, or some video games).

    Games are sometimes played purely for enjoyment, sometimes for achievement or reward as well. They can be played alone, in teams, or online; by amateurs or by professionals. The players may have an audience of non-players, such as when people are entertained by watching a chess championship. On the other hand, players in a game may constitute their own audience as they take their turn to play. Often, part of the entertainment for children playing a game is deciding who is part of their audience and who is a player.

    Key components of games are goals, rules, challenge, and interaction. Games generally involve mental or physical stimulation, and often both. Many games help develop practical skills, serve as a form of exercise, or otherwise perform an educational, simulational, or psychological role."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game

    There's no question about whether Star Citizen is a game or not, of course it is. it's as much a game as GTA Online.
    Now is it entertaining? Sometimes, when it's not plagued by bugs and server crashes. Every time i tried to play this week the server were crashing, that's pretty infuriating.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2020
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  3. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    you haven't said anything though, just repeated what you heard from derek smart.
     
  4. KissSh0t

    KissSh0t Ancient Guru

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    In case someone doesn't know who that is.



    I wonder if he ever finished the video game he was working on.........
     
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  5. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    it got removed from steam xD
     
  6. KissSh0t

    KissSh0t Ancient Guru

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    Have you ever laughed so hard that you farted?

    Because I just did.

    *edit*

    Dude that is legitimately the funniest thing ever.

    https://steamdb.info/app/266620/
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2020
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  7. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    oh damn, he must have pulled one of his MPD backtracks and put it back up.
     
  8. KissSh0t

    KissSh0t Ancient Guru

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    It's not there, if you go to the Line of Defense steam page it just defaults back to the Steam front page.

    https://store.steampowered.com/app/266620

    With steamdb you can see a steamapp's details even if it's hidden on Steam.
     
  9. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    Tactical Advantage isn't the same thing?
     
  10. DocStr4ngelove

    DocStr4ngelove Master Guru

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    Never even heard of it xD
     

  11. KissSh0t

    KissSh0t Ancient Guru

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    No, that is a top down strategy game... although it's also awful.
     
  12. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    For that/those definitions to be accurate, it must have been released by a publisher, or, it must have been published complete with reviews and scores that are used to determine by critical apprasial what sort of comparitive and non-comparitive rating it would be.

    Your example of GTA is therefore one such example one may (or may not) give to comparitively appraise it, once released.

    Until that time is a WIP project with no final release date, because (as I have and am trying to say) their business is predicated on the fact they can run (ad nausuem) forever by continually adding stuff to the project. They are basically increasing the size of the business plan, to get more money, so they can increase the size of the business plan, so they can rationalise asking for more money, so they can increase the size of the business plan...ad nausuem.

    The problem has always been the business plan. A document that does not exist. Try walking into a bank and asking for a business loan without a business plan and you will get nothing. This, as I have always remarked is what happened: lack of credible business plan, therefore rejected by a bank, so he crowdsourced like a hobo...that had $6m of his own cash that he never wanted to spend on this game, yet, felt asking the internet to risk their money (to mitigate the risk) was the easy option.

    I just did a duck-duck-go AND google search for 'Star Citizen for sale' and got nothing. I even tried Amazon (godamn you for making me go to that website!) and nothing, nada, zip.

    So - not a game, but I respect the comment as always.

    The only saving grace 'this' might have is whether I could (upon the project being completed, released, reviewed, in my hand in a DVD/BD-ROM) permanetly destroy other peoples' ships into dust, with a gang - like the good old days in Fountain.

    But no, I imagine that would never, ever be allowed - as I'm sure rare ships will not actually be rare ships, but instantly replaceable with insurance that can 'instapoof' them back into existence, at your hanger.

    What about perma-death of a character? No? Gunshot to the back of the head? Then steal their wallet? And their ship? Their character dead, forever?

    I honestly do not know the answer to those particular questions (And those are the only interesting questions), but I suspect the answer is probably 'no' and as such, ALL of the ships and chracter have NO VALUE if they:

    (a) Cannot be destroyed permanetly
    (b) CAN be immediately replaced

    Because if that is the case, then it basically is written into the code that items and server code (like ships and characters) can be duplicated infinitely. So, the above point might be correct - as I do not know the answer, I'm sorta holding back.

    I appreciate your points, as always and I think you know I'm not trolling - my time is actually quite valuable, and I hate to see people just handing money over to this company for the last...what is it...6, 7 years now?

    If they are a credible company, they would have reviews by now, but no, they do not even have an MVP, which shouldn't have taken more than a year - and that is indisputable.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2020
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  13. The Laughing Ma

    The Laughing Ma Ancient Guru

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    That's some weird comparative logic. The question isn't does Elon think it is worth it, the guy is the CEO of Space X and has serious issue with admitting fault, even when he's been caught with his pants down.

    The question is do people think it was worth it? regarding to Space X no not really, in regard to SC if you've bought the 'game' played it and gotten what you deem to be a worthy amount of entertainment out of the money you put in to it then yes it's worth it. However this is a flexible fluid constantly changing factor mostly due to the fact the game has yet to released. You could continue to put more and more money in to the game buy more stuff and as the years pass it may turn round and no longer become worth it. GTAO is a great example of this. Till around 3 years ago spending time playing and buying Shark Cards for content was worth it but as Rcokstar got more and more greedy added more and more content to it with less and less actual in game worth they started to slowly but surely errod the worth of the content they were adding, as well as the content that existed already with in the game.

    E.g if you bought a Shark Card in the early days to buy a Tank to PWN servers it was worth it cause that's what you got. Then they nerfed the tanks, then skilled Buzzard pilots started hunting tanks, then they added jets and then more better armed tanks and then flying cars racked with missile that could outrun, out manoeuvre and kill tanks in seconds. Was it worth buying the Shark Card for the Tank? Five years ago yes, now most defiantly not.

    The only way anyone can determine if it is worth it will be once the game is out, when we know exactly what we are getting for our money and the last person, the very last person you ask 'if it's worth it' is the guy who owns the company. Cause he'll no doubt call you a pedo and tell you that it was worth it even when experts told him he's talking BS.
     
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  14. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    who cares what the people think, the people are shortsighted fools.
     
  15. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
     

  16. XenthorX

    XenthorX Ancient Guru

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    Clearly Star Citizen is a game without release date, which might never be completed and whose ambition is merely bounds by its funding.
    There's also no point of reference for this game: It's a space sim, a FPS game, a RPG game, maybe a MMORPG one day (next month it'll add a Battlefield Style Gamemode 'theater of war').
    If you take appart Star Citizen into the various game genre it covers, you can find better executions elsewhere: there's not a specific gameplay experience where you could argue they're doing something better than what's already been done, even by way smaller studios. (i'm talking Star Citizen here, Squadron 42 might be another story).

    By going in every direction, the gameplay is average across the experiences, the ship flying is average (you can make fancy videos thanks to decoupled mode and eye tracking but it's just terrible - combat is also in a terrible state according to my fellow Org Mate), the FPS shooting experience is above average but plagued by networking issues, unbalanced VFX and inconsistent weapon feedback which does nto feel satisfying a lot of the time (feels like shooting a generic procedural animation), sounds can be really good.
    The land vehicules can be offensively bad and to my mind shouldn't even be in the game in this state: there's terrible flying bikes that have been released over a year ago in an attrocious state, so terrible i ended up thinking it was purely a marketing stunt to get funding.

    Despite its average gameplay experiences, what you can't take away from this game is the wonderful artistic work it features, from 3D Art to music, which enable true escapism in exotic distant worlds. (lack of wildlife also irritates me)
    Combining those various virtual experiences into a singular make Star Citizen a fairly unique product out of the whole spectrum of currently available multiplayer games.


    I tried to find Fortnite and Escape from Tarkov on Amazon and Steam, without success ;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
  17. The Laughing Ma

    The Laughing Ma Ancient Guru

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    That's oddly dis concerting given the time and money that has been put in to it. I would also assume that yes while the game is still in Alpha it's not exactly an early Alpha any more? I would assume that by this stage they would at least have some aspects of the final gameplay mechanics nailed by now?

    That was an oddly honest review given that the consensus is either SC is a total farce / con / scam /never going to happen / etc etc vs SC is the second coming of gaming Christ. Getting someone who's invested in the game and is willing to give an honest breakdown of the issues with the game is shockingly refreshing.
     
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  18. ramthegamer

    ramthegamer Ancient Guru

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    I do agree with you on what you said concerning, this game offers escapism into new worlds, but we want a finished product, as of now i don t really know what to think of this game? Is it the game that i always dreamed of? NO man s sky but on a much bigger scale, i don t really know , because i can only think what kind of escapism will the finished product offer me.....exploring new worlds, amazing graphics, great shooting mechanics, making ur own spaceship
     
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  19. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/p/f...pack/bxwnx8st04js?activetab=pivot:overviewtab

    £34.99.

    And, if you are talking about just 'Fortnite' - that is FTP and is false equviliance.

    As for EFT, once that has been completed and released, I'm sure it will be in stores and on shelves - but for now, yah, pre-orders baby.



    If you wish to call it "a game with no release date", then, what are the conditions for it being completed? IF all people are doing (which I suspect they are, knowingly or unknowingly) is just feeding someone elses ambitions that cannot be met...that's a complete waste of money.

    The inability to know the limits of what can and cannot be done...is just unlimited very poor management, and project management - the ease with which I could analogise on this topic is also, by proxy; unlimited.

    What was in the original plan? And, where is that project? Becuase they had the $ years ago - yet have not released that project/funding goal. I mean, seriously, that should be a big large red flag to anyone.

    "I need X amount of money to do X"

    (funds get received)

    "I now need even more money to acheive X"

    ---

    It is beyond pathetic for someone to ask for money, who clearly got ALL the money they needed years ago, but keeps on asking for more...and keeps taking money...and keeps increasing the size of the project...

    If this project never gets released/published - that is not an acheivement, and; I would think at this point there is nothing wrong with saying:


    WHEN WILL THIS BE COMPLETED, RELEASED AND IN SHOPS?


    And, if they do not complete, release and it is in shops when they say it will be - then they have failed and we can scrub this BS down for what it is: a fleecing scheme set up by someone who turns everything they touch into dog-poo.
     
  20. KissSh0t

    KissSh0t Ancient Guru

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    I love the bit at the beginning where he is just talking to the camera.... it's so funny seeing the characters face in the game mimicking the person talking, that's such a cool tech.... that level of fidelity would be really cool to see in something like VRChat.
     
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