Star Citizen raised over $300 million USD to date

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jun 16, 2020.

  1. JoeBlobers

    JoeBlobers Member

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    ED and SC are not equal. Frontier did worked on ED over past decade regularly and decided at one point to finish it. This is the reason why they made it so fast.
    Second, ED is a fraction of scope and complexity of SQ42+SC.
    Third CIG had zero studios at end of kickstarter, nor pipelines, no heavily modified game engine and 12 guys.

    Last but not least, you don't know what cash CR bring to create the project.
     
  2. The Laughing Ma

    The Laughing Ma Ancient Guru

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    Why would I compare EA SW to SC? I couldn't give two squirts of camel p*ss about SW Squadron. My original point is that SC is taking so long to get to where ever it is going that by the time it does get there someone else is going to have beaten them to it. A great example is the video posted by PrMinsterGR in which they talk extensively about asset containers being used to hide loading times and over come the limitations of limited RAM and having to stream data from HD and removing load screens. Yet in a few months time Sony are claiming to be releasing a console that could do all of this without having to mess about with asset containers, a hardware solution that could do all of this on the fly. FS2020 is claiming to be using a level of detail that you will be able to actually do global VFR flights, using a combination of Bing mapping data, AI, real time weather and lighting effects based on real life weather as well as real world ATC with up to 50 players aircrafts being rendered within viewable distance.

    The point is SC has made many amazing claims of what it will and is doing over the years but it's development time is taking so long that by the time it does release (assuming it ever does) someone else is going to have beaten them to it.

    There is plenty of reason to attack them. If you were a day one backer putting your cash down to get the game as was described, what has now become SQ42, and have watched year after year as the game you paid for got delay after delay after delay because they opted to start developing another game alongside the one they originally asked money for then it's not hard to see why someone would want to take action. Of course taking legal action is silly because end of the day it was a Kickstarter so you have to have some expectations that things may not go according to plan. On the flipside CIG of course could do the decent thing and just give folk that want a refund their refund. They wouldn't have to worry would they, they are still racking in cash and if the game is as good as they promise then all those folk who wanted a refund will surely come back to purchase the full complete game when it arrives?

    I doubt he is ever going to tell anyone but if he's living in a mansion and driving a million dollar supercar while his studio is still asking for cash to finish the game then something somewhere is very wrong.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2020
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  3. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    Thank you for proving my point so utterly correct.

    Frontier gave a date and kept to it. CR did not.
    Frontier had a specific design document and asked for an amount of money to complete/meet the needs of the design document. CR did not.
    You're right, but I do know how much money he had and how much money he was asking for. He decided to not liquidate his assets and build the project, but call everyone in the games industry colorful metaphors for merely questioning his continued failures.

    So thank you.

    Oh wait, let's not talk about game engines and the complete idiocy for changing a game engine mid-way through development...just to get more cash, or more to the point, rationalising a project extension?

    If the game engine you chose is the wrong game engine for your project...THEN WHY DID YOU ******* PICK IT TO START WITH???!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!?!?!?!?
    ----

    Imagine if you hired them to run a project (which is actually what backers did, initially)...can you pick one word to describe this level of incompetence?

    If this was a builder you hired to put a swimming pool in your back yard - they would be on television for "WORLDS WORST INCOMPETENT BUILDERS!!!!!" or, "BUILDERS FROM HELL".

    Jeez, wake the F up dewd, and please leave David Braben alone, he has done more for the games industry, education and (in general) space exploration that this...dweeb will ever do.
     
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  4. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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    Star Citizen is like Mr O'Reilly's wall.
    It's made of real nice bricks, but it would have been even nicer if instead of just dumping the bricks down in a pile, CIG had found the time to cement them together.



    If there is anyone in the know, I'd like to know what's easier: to bring this project to completion or one that's started completely anew.
     
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  5. Ghosty

    Ghosty Ancient Guru

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    From what I've seen, neither. It's stuck in development imbo with no clear goals.

    Creating a custom game engine that will stress test the lastest PC's, and make a game worth 300 million?
     
  6. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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    But they didn't do that did they? Not only they took the CryEngine, but the coding (or the engine itself) is such that massively multiplayer looks completely out of reach.
     
  7. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    Wouldn't they have to do that anyway though? I don't think there are any engines that support what they are trying to do out of the box. It was either pick one and heavily modify it or start from scratch. If anything choosing Cryengine worked out well since they ended up picking up the Frankfurt studio anyway.

    I think it's stuck in development and forever will be, but I don't think it fits the normal idea of what development limbo (hell) refers to. The product is playable and it's constantly being updated. No clear goals I agree with but it is actively being worked on, not completely scrapped over and over or stagnant.

    They didn't switch game engines. Cryengine to Lumberyard is like going from Unreal Engine 4.22 to 4.23. No one would call that an engine switch.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2020
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  8. Ghosty

    Ghosty Ancient Guru

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    My bad. I just asumed they would.... It dosen't look good. Now two games. (probably old news.)

     
  9. Mineria

    Mineria Ancient Guru

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    With the current investments SC has surpassed GTA5 (that includes all the additional money Rockstar made on side so far) and can not even offer the same amount of content as GTA5.
    The only thing I hear is blah blah blah complicated blah blah blah need more money.
     
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  10. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    Yeah, this is eighth grade level analysis - it ignores so much stuff that goes into building a company that's operating with 500 people across a planet.

    GTA5 started development with a studio that already had 500 people working at it. They had office space, the offices were fully staffed, they had desks, chairs, computers, servers - all already setup, established, working, etc. They had employee contracts that went through lawyer review already designed - all the boilerplate paperwork you do when you got to work for a large company.. it was already done for them. They had email groups, slack or some derivative, entire communications protocols that are the norm of a large company - all already setup. They had 401K plans in place, medical insurance contracts, employee time tracking software and payroll solutions, operation planners, scheduling systems etc. They had an entire production pipeline that's shipped multiple other previous games. Honestly most of the games systems and base level code is reused. Even conceptually the game is just GTA on a larger scale so from a design perspective it doesn't require much time to figure out what you want to add.
     
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  11. Fediuld

    Fediuld Master Guru

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    Have you considered to play X4 Foundations? Is far superior to them and the only game with true background simulator.

    Even EVE Online doesn't have full true background simulator, let alone Elite or Scam Citizen.
     
  12. sverek

    sverek Ancient Guru

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    XD
     
  13. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    I retract my statement, then. I had it in my head they began the project with Unity.

    But, why make the change...?
     
  14. The Laughing Ma

    The Laughing Ma Ancient Guru

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    Indeed and the Kickstarter and following updates all had monetary goals which I would assume included the set up, running and operation costs of the above. Yet despite reaching those goals they are STILL asking for money.
     
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  15. Hypernaut

    Hypernaut Member Guru

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    They started development in 2011. There is no other way around this. Just because it wasn't a full studio and all that fluff. They have had several full studios for years and yet still making slow progress.
     
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  16. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    Unless someone shows evidence that CR is paying himself some exorbitant amount of money - all the additional funding is simply going to hiring more developers - which long term improves the product. People may disagree but in my opinion the experience is getting better, the game is definitely far more playable now than it was two years ago. Every patch fixes at least one or two core issues and adds a multitude of content. Some of that additional content comes with issues but the core experience of the game is definitely improving. Will we see some of the promises they made, like 100 star systems? Probably not - but like I said earlier, the game is at a stage where I can log dozens of hours every patch and get entertainment out of it. So if some people want to spend $1000s or new customers want to take a dip in for $40, I really don't see the issue.
     
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  17. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08703814/filing-history
     
  18. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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  19. The Laughing Ma

    The Laughing Ma Ancient Guru

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    Not for one second suggesting that something dodgy is going on with the funds. I am suggesting that the project is being breath takingly mismanaged though, they have more than met their funding goals 2 or 3 times over, last time I checked they hadn't added any additional stretch goals and they have come close to running out of funds at least twice requiring outside investment to keep them going.

    It should be less, a lot less. In fact it should be no more than what is required for him to live a comfortable life vs his workload, as a sign of respect to the people who have funded this passion project EVERY single last cent should be focused on nothing but the game. He 'directs' (and I use that word in it's loosest possible term) a company that is 100% funded by other peoples money and as yet is to release a completed product, I struggle to think of any company that has done that.

    Had a quick look at one of the reports and unless I am wrong what it says is CR, well 'Directors' took home

    pay.jpg

    £250,000 for 2018 and £110,000 for 2017.

    So the question is are the folk who invested in this game happy knowing that this guy took home over £360,000 over the last two years? (assuming of course that I have read the report correctly)
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2020
  20. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    You'd have to poll everyone but for me personally, I think that's fine. The average AAA studio director is making ~$120-150K a year and he's not only doing that but he's CEO of the company. For me personally though I'm not under the impression that the game is predatory, I personally feel the money I've invested in the game I've already got a return on. So the whole concept of like "CR is using other people's money that donated it" just doesn't jive for me. I paid $40 for a ship and the game, then I put some more in for an additional ship, but at this point I've received over a hundred hours of entertainment from the game - so I'm not bothered by the idea that the guy making it is earning a living off it. By comparison I bought Battlefield 5 for like $60 and played it for 6 hours, I didn't even finish my 10 free hours from the beta.

    Should also point out he did sell portions of the company off - so while they did raise $300M from the community, they also had several rounds of private funding. Further the game has 3 directors, one being CRs wife (I'm actually not sure if they are married anymore), the other being Ortwin Freyermuth who serves as a legal counsel for the company.. for all we know those payments or a portion of those were for paying him.

    Don't get me wrong though - I can definitely see people feeling differently.. especially those that backed early on for SQ42 which still hasn't been delivered. They also do promise things and break those promises quite frequently, so I can see people making the argument that they paid for an experience that never came. But I just don't have that problem with the game - I paid for a space combat game with decent graphics that I could mess around in - and in that sense the product they've given me thus far has more than delivered.
     

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