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Star Citizen developers allegedly wasting money

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, May 7, 2019.

  1. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    Squadron 42 is that single player component, and its being prepared for release in mid 2020.

    The kickstarter pledge is to buy the game.
     
  2. rl66

    rl66 Ancient Guru

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    i think that we can't blame kickstarter, crowfund, is money that people give, but most of the time it is used for developper as they want...
    Sometime the money is used in a not right way (i remember a crowfund to cure cancer that end with a speed excess in a brand new Ferrari...)

    It's not new.
     
  3. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    I might be conflating here, but didn't CR remove the kickstarter, so he could take greater control over the money that was coming in, and then, he changed the definitions, and also altered the T's and C's, to (basically) stop people getting the money back?

    I'm pretty sure, but could totally and utterly be wrong on this, that this did actually happen.

    Another thing that also stands out in the back of my mind is 'Oculus'. Now, I really am fuzzy on this, but didn't the owner sack/remove partners...knowing full well that Facebook had made an offer...and he also removed the kickstarter, or, altered the terms of the kickstarter/funding?

    Something like that - but he basically made it so he didn't have to give any money to partners, and, the whole John Carmack debacle surrounding zenimax studios and, who owned the code blah blah blah, but fishy things were afoot at the circle K that night.

    If someone can clarify, I'd appreciate it - sorry for going OT, kinda.
     
  4. FookDat

    FookDat Master Guru

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    Even IF the game gets fully released, after hundreds of millions of dollars to get it going, how do you think they are going to get their money back out of it? The future of P2W and micro transactions will follow. They cant just sell the game, they will lose hundreds of millions of dollars. Because all of the money the current player base has put in, wont be coming back and paying for the game when the game is released. I already put my money in and they wont be getting more of it. How many of you are going to put another 60-100$ into the game when its released and IF they dont charge a monthly membership to play?
     
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  5. Ricardo

    Ricardo Active Member

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    Because the outcome will cause a ripple effect in crowdfunded games, MMOs and general game development?
    SC was pitched as 'revolutionary' in many ways, and the media was all over it. Whatever happens to it will be closely watched by AAA game companies, and vile practices might be replicated depending on how successful SC is with them, such as astronomical expenses for in-game resources or general mismanagement of core game features. IMO Fallout 76 and Anthem are already the result of these kinds of practices being replicated, with their roadmaps and in-game purchases, and there's no sign of things getting any better.

    Totally agree with you here, though I also understand people who put money into it and got mad at the whole thing, since SC was promoted way back when people was still naive about the whole crowdfunding process.
     
  6. MonstroMart

    MonstroMart Master Guru

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    I don't understand why some people have so much trouble understanding crowd funding. For a weird reason some people seem to think it means they'll pay and they'll get what they want 100% of the time. I mean not even big publishers can deliver this level of certainty with their triple A titles. Crowd funding is pretty much based on the same foundation as the stock market. The main difference is the return you have on your investment is a game that would never see the light of the day because big publishers don't want to fund it. Like the stock market you risk losing everything.

    It was pretty clear from the beginning there would be massive disappointments with crowd funding. It was also clear there would be very good games coming out of it that would not exist without it because nobody wanted to fund those niche games.

    As long as no criminal actions are done i don't see the problem. If the dev really tried to deliver but failed too for various reasons (not skilled enough, bad management, ...) then i don't see the problem. Until someone brings me proofs CR scammed people then i think it's a storm in a glass of water. So far the only thing i see is CR being CR and that's a risk people who invested in this game should have realized from the beginning. CR was well known. Well know for his strengths and well known for his weakness. I mean it's like someone investing in a Peter Molyneux game and then complaining the guy did not deliver on his promises.

    Web sites handling crowd funding should probably deliver a more healthy framework for the projects and people investing in them but people will still risk losing their money to devs unable to deliver and people will still complain about it. I mean if they start refunding people because a dev failed to deliver without trying to scam people then it totally destroys the purpose of crowd funding as nobody will want to assume the risk. That's the whole point of crowd funding. You get money on the promise you'll deliver something but the bank wont knock on your door if you fail. If you remove that then there's no point to crowd funding.

    Crown funding is not perfect but at the end of the day i would 100% invest money in Baldur's Gate 3 and Little Big Adventure 3 and i would be perfectly fine with losing my money if the small teams behind those projects would fail to deliver as long as they would fail honestly because they are not good enough. Personally i believe CR is simply not good enough anymore. He's like Peter Molyneux. He can't manage a project and it's been this way since Freelancer. The writing were on the wall before he started Star Citizen.
     
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  7. fry178

    fry178 Maha Guru

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    @MonstroMart
    oh the typical "until i see proof..", we're not in court here :rolleyes:
    i could say the same.
    show me proof that everything is"as expected", since he first laid out "details" about the game years ago.

    since im not remembering that much nor do i care to waste more time to find out,
    option 1: he had/has a roadmap, and is more or less on point/time with delivery
    option 2: he has no clue how to really manage a project like this and/or he was in it for the money from the beginning

    should be easy for him to proof that all the money went towards the game.
    i prefer to believe ppl that have a positive track record, showing results (for previous claims).
     
  8. The Laughing Ma

    The Laughing Ma Ancient Guru

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    You mean make SC exclusive to EGS? Lol my god could you imagine the rage? I am not entirely sure that the internet could deal with either the rage from the gaming community in general or deal with the level of smug self satisfaction from all the people saying I told you so, while also being angry at the game being exclusive to EGS, because everyone seems to be mad about that no matter what.
     
  9. kbx1

    kbx1 Member

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    IMO its bad to accept this kind of behavior so easily. Such approach will have bad impact on market. If this is widely accepted more companies will start selling more and more unrealistic promises to get easy money and then get away without delivering. You are sending message that you are ok with the fact that you will not get what you paid for.

    And its not as stock market for several reasons. You dont have any kind of control over invested money. You cant withdraw your money any time you want to minimize loss for example.

    Yes, big publishers (outside crowfunding) often not provide the product they promised but they are risking their own money. So again, its very different situation.
     
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  10. coth

    coth Master Guru

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    $200 mln is pretty little for that kind of game. PUBG, for instance, raised over $250 mln for development with Steam Early Access fund raising program. And what's the outcome? Primitive shooter with near zero functionality and zero technology. If they had well at least 30 well detailed maps and optimized high quality graphics and much larger amount of weaponry, we could say something came out at least in terms of assets, but there is not.

    Then SWTOR took near 7 years in development on existent techs. RDR 2 was 8 years in development on existing tech as well. Star Citizen is only 3 year in development, that started in 2016. Before that they were only working on base techs and on previous concept that was Freelancer-like game. Modern Star Citizen is being developed more like SWTOR, but with open world. There is another game of the scale example - BGAE2. Being done on new tech that is being developed since 2007. The game is still in active development and unlikely to come out until 2021.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2019
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  11. FM57

    FM57 Member Guru

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    US$ 4.7 M house and that is a scandal ? Reports from former employees saying that he is not a fabulous manager and telling that he is micro managing ?

    Well, At the current price, US$ 5 M is a nice house but not extravagant. And frustrated ex-employees comments are, hhmmm, logic.

    So no news indeed.
     
  12. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    Star Citzen has been in development since 2011 not sure were you get 3 years from, maybe 3 years using it current engine? but been development for alot long then 3 years
     
  13. Texter

    Texter Ancient Guru

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    SC/S42 are already exclusive, just not an Epic exclusive. I don't think anyone would be that upset if an Epic Games would ultimately pick up the pieces of a near-finished project so they'd have their games instead of NO games at all. All that is stretching things a bit for the time being...predicting that things will get tight is pessimistic enough :)
     
  14. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    [​IMG]
     
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  15. 0blivious

    0blivious Ancient Guru

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    I see this notion a lot: Only backers should discuss this game.

    Why?

    Why do only the people who paid into it have a right to care or discuss this game? Why can't people who are fans care? Why can't someone who wants to buy the (finished) game care? Why can't random observers of the biggest crowd funded project ever, care?

    I cannot for the life of me understand that way of thinking.
     

  16. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    It's the Internet and forums at that, why would anything make sense o_O

    Dont get me wrong I loved Wing Commander games, Not so much Freespace but I did like it, but SC probably has budget bigger then the Wing commander series and Freespace combined at this point. and nothing is been produced other then promises of finish game and bunch alpha and beta ? I seriously want this to come out but till it is released it nothing to me
     
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  17. rl66

    rl66 Ancient Guru

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    As always there is "how it is done" and "how it should be done"...

    Also Forbe was really against him in the article, they should kept neutral.
    We will see when SC will be aviable (or not) if Chris was right or not..
     
  18. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    Nothing is above criticism, that is how criticism works.

    If he had just opened the development studio, I would totally understand a Forbes publication of this nature being received poorly.

    Now? After all this time? It's open hunting season for critical appraisal of anyone in an identical position. You can't hide forever behind platitudes and other public relation codified speak. The net result of action or inaction shall prevail. The sword of Damocles is hanging above his head on a thread and it will be no one else's fault, should he fail.

    Problem is, people like him have issues with admitting they did anything wrong, as I mentioned a few pages back - so if it goes wrong, the thought of him being at fault will never enter his head and his ID/ego/super-ego shall play devils advocate and create a villain for him to blame. That's how it happens. Being egotistical is really just someone having an over-active defence mechanism, where the mind will do whatever it can to defend itself, from itself.

    This, goes back to Microsoft and Freelancer...
     
  19. lmimmfn

    lmimmfn Ancient Guru

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    I backed it, I expect 0 in return at this stage.

    Someone mentioned Oculus, while we all got free kits after the FB takeover, the initial Kickstarter was a con, private investors like CliffyB and others had already invested in the company and advertised in the KS video without declaring involvement financially, so it was a company with private investors before going to KS. That's my issue, it was never declared.
    When bought out by FB they made a fortune.

    I'm happy I got a free VR headset but it was a bit of a con overall.
     
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  20. Aura89

    Aura89 Ancient Guru

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    Depends on the pledge, there are many pledges that have tiers that do not get the full item, game or otherwise, but rather a thank you, or some other random stuff.
     

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