Star Citizen Alpha 2.0 Gameplay Trailer

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Dec 4, 2015.

  1. darkshadow5k5

    darkshadow5k5 Master Guru

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    Don't mistake my tone with anger, I don't give a **** about who gets what, I wasn't making a statement, it was a response. Something you clearly missed when you tried to cherry pick at my points with arguments based on speculation.
    Good job at trying to debate something I'm not arguing.
     
  2. Kaerar

    Kaerar Master Guru

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    If you think a debate includes insults and derogatory terms then you've already lost any point you try to make. Go back through my posts and see if I make any attempt to be snide, nasty or offensive towards you (or anyone else in their responses to you for that matter). The only one being rude is you and you wonder why you have an issue with what others consider a debate.

    BTW I didn't cherry pick. I responded to all original points, the last post I responded to very little as it can be summed with the same complaint repeated ad infinitum based on personal bias.
     
  3. darkshadow5k5

    darkshadow5k5 Master Guru

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    Oh no, someone is saying bad words on the internet QQ, jesus get over yourself.
    There was no debate, nor did I reply to you or anyone in particular.
    My post was about 2 things:
    Having an advantage
    And being able to control areas/resources.

    Neither of these points can be debated because they are facts, but then you decided to pull me into this garbage about "well I don't think there are that many javelin's sir, oh and orion is a mining ship I reckon :nerd:", which was never the point. Yet you still managed to make an entire post by meticulously literal going over mine, and writing up arguments based on speculation.
    Sorry I didn't care about your feelings during all of this :wanker:.
     
  4. The Laughing Ma

    The Laughing Ma Ancient Guru

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    Kaerar you're a great example why debating anything to do with this game with someone who is clearly heavily invested in it, proves to be utterly pointless. The topic started with me saying I thought that limiting a digital download was a crap sales policy when they could just do limited time sales like everyone else does and from there it has gone downhill.

    It's obvious that you are invested in the game, the fact that you have almost five posts in a row, bullet pointing every single detail that you feel doesn't meet your ideal of the game goes a long way to prove this, mind you reflecting on that I find it ironic, even cheeky that you believe I was trying to force my opinion on people... I mean just look at the sheer number of posts you have created trying to convince people that they are wrong.

    Good luck to you sir, if you enjoy the game good for you I hope it was money well spent.

    Oh worth noting

    Just happens to meet ALL the criteria you mentioned above.
     

  5. ScoobyDooby

    ScoobyDooby Ancient Guru

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    LOLLLLLL Clearly.. anyone who posts as much as you have in this thread clearly doesn't care at all. ooooomg that's rich.

    Welp, lets pack it in guys! Darkshadow said that these are facts he's telling us.. facts about a game that's not yet even finished yet.. apparently everything is set in stone and nothing can be changed: FACT.

    OMG dude you're killing me here hahahahaha
     
  6. darkshadow5k5

    darkshadow5k5 Master Guru

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    Bye, maybe you will stay away for real this time.:)
     
  7. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    So 'do not buy a game which is incomplete, and do not preorder' ?

    I agree.
     
  8. vbetts

    vbetts Don Vincenzo Staff Member

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    Hey everyone, let's calm down. This is the only warning.
     
  9. Kaerar

    Kaerar Master Guru

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    Well if you had said it like that, you probably wouldn't have had the reactions you did. I agree that limitation of digital goods isn't the best idea in some ways, but it's still a marketing tool used IRL and for digital goods (kickstarter's often have limited amounts of earlybird purchases for example). So while it may be a bit crap, it's a complaint that isn't limited to just Star Citizen.

    To have a discussion there usually has to be a back and forth between the people. I didn't make multiple posts directed at a single person without a response from them. Generally I was under the impression that a conversation/discussion/debate required input from both parties...

    I did say "you are wrong" in my reply to you, but primarily because you were making a false assertion.

    I will, I hope you enjoy whatever pastimes you have too :)

    o_O not entirely sure you comprehend English if you think that.



    So first you say it's a debate, now it's not? You quoted someone different in your first reply and clearly quoted me in others. Or am I understanding things too literally for you? I don't care about saying bad words on the internet or anything of the sort, I don't think you are validating your points by being rude though.

    Again the only advantage a large organisation has is number of players. The ability to control areas/resources is limited due to the 10:1 NPC to player ratio which also limits the number of people in the different instances. BTW these numbers aren't final and can be tweaked by the dev's to make sure balance is kept.

    Both points can be debated, you just want your opinion to be the end all.

    So your examples were incorrect and inaccurate, making your point nebulous at best.

    Speculation? Hardly, it was based on discussions with the dev's from the Alpha discussions on Discord. But hey you are basing this on pure opinion...

    I still don't care about yours (nice hidden insult with the "wanker" smiley) :)
     
  10. darkshadow5k5

    darkshadow5k5 Master Guru

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    I never said anything was a debate, I said you were trying (and still are) trying to debate something I'm not arguing.
    No I did not reply to anyone, I made a post about advantage/control, directed at noone in particular.

    Ok great, so there is an advantage, and you can control areas. Thanks.

    Alright, tell CR to update his website and numbers, and to stop his devs from giving quotes, because they are inaccurate and incorrect :wanker:.
     

  11. screecwe

    screecwe New Member

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    I just read through it. Nothing seemed to back up what you said. Care to cite the actual section and subsection?

    I gave you the information you needed to find the information. I can't post links here as of yet because the forum is blocking me.
     
  12. screecwe

    screecwe New Member

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    You're simply converting cash into a product, which is an asset. You're not "losing" anything.
     
  13. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    No you did not. It's a four day course to cover the salient points, if memory serves.

    use DOT instead of ".", we'll get it
     
  14. screecwe

    screecwe New Member

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    I sure did. Have a look yourself. It's all pretty common sense stuff. I mean, I only skimmed the majority of it, but I read everything that looked like it might have something to do with sale prices and such. Nothing.

    I'm over the 5 post minimum now so..

    [​IMG]

    From 18:50
    https://youtu.be/ZZWaBnpSvUk?t=18m50s
     
  15. vbetts

    vbetts Don Vincenzo Staff Member

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    Yup, so how about we listen to my warnings?
     

  16. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    Well, if you insist...

    The "Consumer Protection (Amendment) Regulations 2014" does not, and I quote, "...The 2008 Regulations make misleading actions unlawful. An action by a trader is misleading if it contains false information or if it is likely to mislead the average consumer in its overall presentation."

    This amendment is under the sale of goods act 1979.

    Two key words; 'unlawful' as in 'against the law' and 'misleading' as in 'you have a limited supply'.

    As I mentioned before, this is not for virtual items which do not exist, only real tangible goods - as such your analogy is false, 'sir.

    Now, onto that slide...

    What you are saying is that CR believes it is perfectly acceptable to spend development money on marketing? Why? If some people gave money for the development of the game, do you think they are okay and 'on board' with the notion of their money being spent on marketing?

    And those figures are quite clearly 'worse case scenario' and extremely generalised, but ultimately totally contextual. No developer has EVER had to spend money on marketing, publishing or any retailer margins. The deals made at the initial stage are wholly determined by shrewdness of negotiation and the quality of the business game-design documentation and of course any demo's you got.

    I can think of one company who spends money on marketing: Rockstar. They have got the sweetest deal with their publisher (long time publisher and long time partner) for the thematic style of the commercials and marketing they got. They know what works and have got a vast array of talent working for them directly for the GTA (and others) franchise. Now, as they incur part of the cost of marketing their game(s), they got a better deal for slicing up the profit.

    Back onto CR...if he had a publisher from the start, a 'perfect' design document and the kind of negotiator who looks like they were born wearing sunglasses - we would not be having this discussion.

    Too much ketchup, not enough hot dog - with no bun.
     
  17. HeavyHemi

    HeavyHemi Ancient Guru

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    I wasn't aware that game developers marketing their games via their own websites and created content re: trailers for example, was all free. Learn something new every day.
     
  18. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    Exactly.
     
  19. HeavyHemi

    HeavyHemi Ancient Guru

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    You may wish you rethink your arguments. Developers spending money on marketing is more common than you believe.
     
  20. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    I seriously doubt it based on what I know.

    If you mean that developers will get less of a slice of the profits if all marketing and promotion and PR is conducted by the publisher, I would agree. It is not uncommon for this to be considered 'spending money', if it concludes you get less net profit.

    TR-TC=TP

    Total Revenue minus Total Cost equals Total Profit. This is one of the first things on the board when I studied the micro-economics modules and I never forgot it. Such a simple equation, but with broad sub definitions and divisions for each heading.

    What I think is misunderstood here is that developers simply do not spend money on marketing out of their own development budget. Development budgets are not marketing budgets. If you set aside or apportion development cost to marketing, you diminish the development. I don't know why this is hard to understand and additionally find it incredulous that people think it's perfectly acceptable for this to occur.

    If you're Rockstar, you have already set aside as part of your total cost, marketing budgets for promotion. Even Rockstar do not take money assigned to development and put it into marketing.

    What CR has done is say to people 'hey this game will cost $X' and people backed it. Then he turned around and said they will use development money for marketing, as such the game will cost more.

    I think in the playground this is known as 'moving the goal posts'. The people who gave money to the game were never told their money would be for marketing and promotion.
     

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