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SSD does not trim automatically w10

Discussion in 'SSD and HDD storage' started by Mahershala, Apr 20, 2019.

  1. Mahershala

    Mahershala Member

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    In Optimize Drives app the schedule is set to optimize weekly, yet i keep checking on it and weeks go by and it will not optimize, then a full month goes by and current state changes to needs optimization x days since last run and i need to optimize it manually.

    Is this a bug?
     
    Strange Times likes this.
  2. Caesar

    Caesar Master Guru

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    run cmd (command prompt) in administrator mode
    ------------------------------------------
    enter the following:
    fsutil behavior query disabledeletenotify
    ------------------------------------------
    NTFS DisableDeleteNotify = 0 - TRIM support is enabled for SSDs with NTFS
    NTFS DisableDeleteNotify = 1 - TRIM support is disabled for SSDs with NTFS
    NTFS DisableDeleteNotify is not currently set - TRIM support for SSDs with NTFS is not currently set, but will automatically be enabled if a SSD with NTFS is connected.
    -------------------------------------------
    If your drive is formatted with ReFS, the fsutil command will report the following.

    ReFS DisableDeleteNotify = 0 - TRIM support enabled for SSDs with ReFS
    ReFS DisableDeleteNotify = 1 - TRIM support disabled for SSDs with ReFS
    ReFS DisableDeleteNotify is not currently set - TRIM support for SSDs with ReFS is not currently set, but will automatically be enabled if a SSD with ReFS is connected.
    ---------------------------------------------

    If your drive is formatted with NTFS, use the following command to enable it.
    fsutil behavior set disabledeletenotify NTFS 0
    The following command will disable it.
    fsutil behavior set disabledeletenotify NTFS 1
    If your drive is formatted with ReFS, use the following command to enable TRIM for your SSD:
    fsutil behavior set disabledeletenotify ReFS 0
    The opposite command is as follows.
    fsutil behavior set disabledeletenotify ReFS 1

     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2019
  3. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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    @Caesar

    OP asked not about TRIM but about automatic schedule. TRIM starts manually without errors.

    @Mahershala
    Why do you want to schedule optimisation? When TRIM is performed on every delete operation there is no need in such optimisation whether manual or automatic.
     
    386SX, HandR, user1 and 1 other person like this.
  4. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    you talking built in defrag program that can set to automaticly optimize drives?
    Last time I had it set to weekly it never optimized the ssd or hell the hdd now mater how much time went by.

    When I changed it to monthly it optimizes the drives once every month, Maybe the weekly function is still broke for this?

    My understand is this really just manual trim? that can be set on schedule? I have this set to once month for all my drives.
     

  5. uKER

    uKER Member Guru

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    TRIM has absolutely nothing to do with defragmentation.

    Defragmentation is a process by which files are arranged in contiguous sectors on the disk, to minimize seek times due to the head needing to be relocated to different parts of the disk.
    SSDs not having heads, spin, tracks, or any of that, do not require defragmentation at all.

    TRIM, on the other hand is related to SSD garbage collection, a process that doesn't even exist in HDDs.

    I don't have a clue why Windows still offers the option to defragment non-mechanical drives (SSDs, flash drives, RAM drives, etc.)

    Long story short, don't worry as your system is most probably working perfectly well.
     
    -Tj- likes this.
  6. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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    It is a consensus that Win10 (may be Win8 too) replaces defragmentation process with the garbage collection when it detects SSD.

    Here are my disks
    [​IMG]

    Do you see difference between SSD and HDDs? "Needs optimization" for SSD and "% fragmented" for HDDs.

    PS I went and clicked "Optimize" button, the progress stated "smth trimmed", and now
    [​IMG]

    PPS Most probably that dialog writes "Needs optimization" if SSD was not optimized (there in that dialog) for a long period of time, but not because SSD actually reports the need for optimization.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019
    HandR likes this.
  7. Mahershala

    Mahershala Member

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    Yeah thats what im talking about, it says ok for about a month then after like 28-30days it changes to needs optimisation, x days since last run, i have the default weekly schedule but it does nothing, changed it to monthly now to see if it changes.

    And yes im talking about SSD optimisations aka retrimming aka garbage collection and not Defragmentation as that is for HDD even though its the same program windows does separate tasks for each other.

    @mbk1969 how do you know trim runs at every deletion? afaik some ssd dont have such aggressive trim and use more passive, mine is an 860 evo and i dont know what it uses.

    If ssd dosent need a manual retrim then why windows says it needs it.
     
  8. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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    Do not mix TRIM and garbage collection. Every deletion on file system should be accompanied with the TRIM command - to inform SSD about freed sectors. And at some point SSD should perform garbage collection of those freed sectors. SSD decides when to start this garbage collection depending on current load, on settings in firmware, and stuff like that.

    1) SSD can report such thing.
    2) Windows can just track last start time (of garbage collection) and write about the need just if the time span from the last start is bigger then week, two weeks, N days...
     
  9. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    if it not running once month then you have different issue, I know the weekly "optimize" in Defragment and Optimize Drives never worked which why I switch to monthly which is defualt

    the weekly ( which does not work) and monthly Optimize on SSD are not actual defragging the drive cause operation takes like 3 seconds if that. No defrag is that fast even IF one was stupid enough to actual do "defrag" on ssd . its either doing trim or garbage collection, I would go with what ever mbk1969 says it is.

    Note I have not checked if weekly optimize in "Defragment and Optimize Drives" is working or not, I put back to the default to it once month and left it be and every month it does an "optimize" on both drives.
     
  10. Mahershala

    Mahershala Member

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    weekly is default not monthly, i switched now to monthly and ill see if it retrimms now. you can't defrag a ssd since windows lists it as ssd, even if you hit the button it will say retrimming

    @mbk1969 for number 2, well that is the problem, windows just dosent automatically retrimm even if its set to automatically do so and as far as i read its recommended to enable automatically schedule
     

  11. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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    If your rig stays idle for some time once per day that should be enough for SSD to start a garbage collection. In such scenario there is no need in automatic schedule for it.
    You can test whether your SSD degrades over time without automatic schedule. If no degradation, then I am correct.
     
  12. K.S.

    K.S. Maha Guru

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    Varies between OEMs. Take Crucial (Aggressive) & Samsung (like your EVO - Passive)

    If you run into issues during day to day use you can check out the support site for your product and download a utility such as Samsung's Magician which will give you the option to "Force" garbage collection in certain use cases. Not that that's the goal here - just adding it as a sidebar.

    I'll see what I can find regarding the question you asked.

    One thing I was wondering was if it creates a task in Windows scheduler (Task)...check into that also - perhaps check all of your System's services and confirm all relating to drive optimization are running on "Automatic"
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
  13. Mahershala

    Mahershala Member

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    @mbk1969 and how do you test that degredation as ssd is always fast and can't notice it? maybe my pc is idle for 30 minutes when its powered on but if longer then i shutdown the pc. and can the gargabe collection or retrim work properly if i have no samsung magician or intel ahci driver installed? microsoft ahci has the best values as ive seen and samsung magician seems useless.

    @K.S. i have no other issues, everything seems normal i was just wondering why that automatically schedule isnt working as it should and if its only me or is it a bug. i uninstalled samsung magician as it was useless, the optimisation on it is the same as windows one i think and have to do it manually. never messed with task scheduler but now i see that in conditions tab its not set to start when pc is in idle. is that default?
     
  14. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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    There are a bunch of benchmark programs for disks.

    Garbage collection is intrinsic thing of SSD. It should not depend on drivers, apps and even OS.

    I use it to check for the health of SSD, and to check for firmware updates.
     
  15. K.S.

    K.S. Maha Guru

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    Would you mind posting a screenshot for me please? I saw you guys talk about disk tools / benchmarking etc - I use AIDA, like that one a lot...

    I'll eyeball my NVME n see if it does within 7 days of the 19th... [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019

  16. BuildeR2

    BuildeR2 Ancient Guru

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    Curious to see where this thread goes, as I noticed this bug months ago and now have a weekly reminder set in my phone to remind me to trim my SSD's.
     
  17. Mahershala

    Mahershala Member

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    screenshots from task schedule and optimize drives here https://imgur.com/a/hlvFDc2 , in optimize drives i changed to monthly now and see if it works but when it was on weekly it would always show ok until 28days passed. win 10 1809 .437 build
     
  18. K.S.

    K.S. Maha Guru

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    I checked mine last week - it didn't TRIM automatically within the "Optimize Drives" Tool - So I switched it to "Daily" my SSDs still haven't Trimmed daily on their own (at least according to this tool)

    It's possible it's occurring natively in another manner not reflected within "Optimize Drives" & that the "Optimize Drives" scheduler only affects HDDs not SSDs.
     
  19. Clouseau

    Clouseau Ancient Guru

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    The weekly schedule works for my NVMe drive but not for the SATA SSDs that are connected. Best guess is that the issue has something to with how the communications are handled on SATA.
     
  20. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    working as it should as per windows 10 storage policies.
     

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