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Sony talks about a new console - PlayStation 5?

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Oct 10, 2018.

  1. XP-200

    XP-200 Ancient Guru

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    With the cost of these new RTX cards coming in at 700 quid for the lowest model, you could at this time buy a 50in 4k hdr tv and either a XBX or Pro for that kind of cash, i mean my gtx1080 cost 470 this year, and that was on a sale, and this is one single component, so it's becoming silly now how Nvida and Intel are turning what was a very nice litte affordable hobby of building your own pc and getting more bang for your buck than what pre builds could ever offer, to the now ludicrous priced, sell a kidney or your first born nonsense, and all because they both have a monopoly on their respective markets, and yes i am to blame as much as anyone for having both in my pc. Lol
     
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  2. nicugoalkeper

    nicugoalkeper Master Guru

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    And this is not all, more and more exclusive PS games are ported to XBOX or Nintendo.
     
  3. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    1 ) PoV
    2) I do not own console. But I have almost got it many times. If I ever get console, it will be because of those particular games like Heavy Rain which have no PC version. I can probably write quite a good list. Playing newest NFL/Fifa... not for me, it is clone from last year, those cloned iterative games are not reason why people buy consoles, they can have them everywhere, just in different hood.
    3) That's what I mean. nV will not even negotiate that, likely would be plain: "No."
    4) AMD made last baseline. When AMD works at new one, they have no negatives included. Performance, cost, efficiency is on their side on console. Proven technology too (Subor Z+). We discussed many downsides on nVidia's side which would have to be overcome and some which will not. AMD just needs to remain AMD to deliver design faster, cheaper and better (feature wise for users).

    Sony Wants:
    - All features PS4 Pro has
    - Same thermal envelope
    - Backwards compatibility (from marketing perspective, you do not ever want to look like you are taking steps back)
    - And Yes, semi-custom design

    Side note: If I knew SuborZ+ was coming, I would not build 2400G system. That thing is just too good PC for the money. (It is ugly and probably has cheapest SSD, but it is not as big of a deal.)
     
  4. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    Well it depends on what you consider "PC like". My personal understanding of being more PC like is that it would give you more control over the hardware and the OS, which probably won't happen. But to each their own priorities, don't get me wrong, I don't want to talk bad about people's console wishes, I left console gaming after the PS3 and it not being backwards compatible, for good I have to say. But that's a subjective thing.
     

  5. Hyderz

    Hyderz Active Member

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    Sony needs to start looking at ways to cool down their consoles more effectively current consoles are loud,
     
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  6. rburks

    rburks New Member

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    Are we forgetting that Sony already has a contract with AMD for the PS5? AMD has been hard at work on Navi, which was on their roadmap a couple of years ago. It was only realized recently that Navi was never meant to be a PC GPU exclusively, but rather the graphics hardware behind Sony's next gen console. The PC market will take advantage of Navi after all work has been done for Sony, much like Vega was put into normal production after AMD had finished its contract fulfillment for Apple. AMD is spending the majority of its time and resources on the GPU side by supplying the console market, while allowing Nvidia to capture the high-end PC market. This gives them a more stable market to work in, while they spend the rest of their money and resources on their Zen CPU processors. They had to make a choice because they don't have the capitol to stay ahead on both fronts. With the high-end PC GPU market being wildly unpredictable (read bitcoin boom and crash), and the very low return on highly expensive top-tier gaming GPUs, it only made sense for them to back off in that market and instead work with their already lucrative console market share. Remember, Vega was never meant to be a gaming GPU - it is a compute engine by design, but it can still do gaming very well. They have a very large amount of ground to cover before they will advance on Nvidia's latest Turing part, and Navi may not even be designed to counter this - we will have to wait and see.
     
  7. XP-200

    XP-200 Ancient Guru

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    I think the problem with the pro is that they shoved more heat generating stuff into what really was a box designed for lesser components, hence why it is quiet on 1080p stuff and 1970s bothy convenient heater when pushing 4k type stuff, but at least this winter i will be warm when playing Horizon. Lol
     
  8. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    Jeebies, hard to believe but I forgot all about this...you might be onto something there for cooling and efficiency...can't believe I forgot about navi, must be all the talk on RTX and nvidia pricing themselves out of the market with the 20XX range of cards.

    20XX is just nutz...can't understand why nvidia thought the top of the bell curve was 'that'. Just nutz.
     
  9. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    i expect it to be amd again, and i expect all consoles going foward being PC tech so from hardware stand point newer consoles should have built in support for last gen disc/digital support, at this point it should be steam eco were you can have game from 5 gens ago play in current system and said game will run no issue just with better performance, though I beleive both Sony and MS will try and say no it not possible cause they dont want to kill there sales of "remastered" games.

    my wish list is simple 1080p @60FPS stable if it on 1080p screen, and if on 4K set 4K@30 with out checkerboard, I dont see 4k@60 happen on consoles I also see 399$~499$ being the new prices and that is not gona be powerfull enough to deliver 4k@60 seeing there are 700$ cards coupled with 300$+ cpu and 32gb ram that cant do 4k@60 reliable so what chance does 399-499$ console and IF they do get BC for ps4/pro games which they should have no issue with doing from hw stand point as it it amd again and based off the same cpu they use last gen which pc tech, it should run only with better performance, I think I will migrate to consoles again, atlest till prices on PC side of stuff stop going stupid for gpu's and ram.

    I put off buying ps4 pro till I know more
     
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  10. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    It's an interesting point. UHD, that is.

    I think I remarked on this about a year ago, possibly even in early 2017 or late 2016 regarding teevee's and UHD, in relation to PS4 pro. Some (here) were saying that Sony got it wrong, but I think they got it just about right, in that the installed user-base for UHD was so slim and not set to actually grow to a meaningful level. My point, which yeah, I did call it first; is that XBox were losing the console war this time around, and, them trying to gain ground by releasing (or promising) a UHD console was a loosing position.

    Over the last two years, the UHD market has grown whereby if you buy a new teevee now, you are going to have a hard time buying one (new) that is not UHD. Srsly, try and find a 1080P(i) teevee, it's very hard if not impossible for major and minor retailers. I'm not talking about the second room/bedroom/housekeepers model, I'm talking the big teevee for the main den of the house.

    And this is "the thing", and (partially) a problem with part of the logic on the whole topic of new consoles and why Sony got it right with the PS4 pro. To release a console that delivers UHD to a non-UHD market using non-UHD playback is/was insane. Not only are you selling to the smallest portion of the market, you also have to contend with: people spending money on a UHD teevee, people spending money on UHD playback devices (selling their non-UHD playback devices is a hassle, as is selling their non-UHD teevee's) and an overall upgrade of their home cinema/home entertainment.

    It was too much. "Man, XboxS plays UHD movies, but I don't have a UHD teevee, or any movies in my collection anyway...and I'll have to sell my existing teevee...too much bother to get something I don't want or really even see the value in...already got a 50incher...not worth it...what the hell is HDR anyway?...etc etc etc...something something something new iphone...new android...not as many people own an xbox versus playstation....too much money to spend for something something something..."

    Y'see?

    This was always going to be Xbox's problem from the very beginning, and your immediate point was absolutely correct:

    If Xbox was this from day ONE on the XboxOne - I think the history books would be writing a very different story for the xbox V PS4. Maybe even 50/50 split between them. Let's get back to PS4/5.

    Sony played it perfectly. They made the PS4 pro output UHD in the checker-boarded fashion for those who did upgrade to UHD, but didn't push UHD playback on Disc, because, well, let's be completely and totally honest here: no one really cares about UHD players when the vast majority of console owners will be streaming content anyway. These are gamers. Not collectors of movies én masse, and Sony know this. They are Sony. They make teevees and blue ray players. Pretty good ones, too. They know what the stats actually are for their key markets.

    Now? It's simple:

    UHD Gaming, because UHD teevees are the norm, but, the pricing is still something people must overcome and it does fall into the 'maybe next year' category of 'things that consumers are going to spend money on'. This means the transition (to a new console) is dependent what the total market penetration is, or is going to be.

    I would think that due to the following:

    -Installed userbase of PS4 (regardless of pro or not)
    -UHD output of streaming content
    -Market uptake (which is beyond 'my teevee is broken and I need a new one' to the other end of the spectrum 'I am buying my first teevee') of UHD teevee
    -upscaling/checkerboarding of PS4 pro gaming to UHD
    -cost cost cost cost

    Sony will not release a new console until 2020/21

    And, this brings nvidia into the equation...it just does. I do doubt they will be a part of the Sony PS5, but I do think the possibility is there.

    So yeah, if it happens, let it known for all of Guru3D history that I called it.
     

  11. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    either way by time new consoles is release it will still be year or 2 behind PC tech performance wise, cause I never seen console realse with tech that equalvant to pc tech performance of that year it was release it was always 2 years or older tech. so even if in the time pc gpu become cappable 4k@60 there cost would still probably be more then 70% of cost of 499$ console and highly doubt we gona see gpus that are sub 300$ cappable of 4k@60 in current games any time soon

    like said I really want 1080p@60 bare min and I really want it to be able to play ps4/pro disc/digital games on it cause from hw stand point it ALL based off the same architecture now only problem would be IF sony decided to make completely diffrent OS that is comptaible and reason why it not possible

    I can play PC games from 10 years ago on my current PC and it works, and each PC upgrade since the game original release make said game run even better. if barelly did 1080p60fps on the computer I original bought it on, the current PC will runn it 1080p 60 with ease, that is what I Want from consoles going foward, this is no longer hw issue cause up until ps4 gen almost all consoles had custom made cpu/gpu made for it and as such were never based on architectures pc's use
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018
  12. fry178

    fry178 Maha Guru

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    @XP-200
    Lol, ps4 pro has the same hardware, just all horsepower used (cores unlocked etc).
    And still uses roughly half, what the xbox one needs for the same game.
    As well as most ppl play with the sound turned on or even headphones, so the few that are not happy with fan noise,
    can always get 3rd party coolers.
    I mean why should 80% of customers pay more for improved cooling/less noise, just because a smaller amount isn't happy with it.

    @anyone comparing to pc
    Part of the reason why consoles will always be behind same priced computers, you have a limited amount of power/heat you can handle in those boxes.
    And that really didnt increase over past 2 gens, as its still around 300w max.
    And no, pcs arent that more backwards compatible,
    maybe for older games on newer hardware/os,
    buth tere games requiring windows store and/or 10 to run,
    same if i want Dx12.
     
  13. XP-200

    XP-200 Ancient Guru

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    And i hope it continues with the next consoles, if it were not for the PS4 kicking the xbox all the way down the stairs i would not be sitting with almost all of my xbox 360 digital library on the XBX, i would not be able to buy one copy of a xbox game and get a PC version free, i would not be sitting with original xbox games on the xbox one, or free 4k HDR updates to original and xbox 360 games, and i would not be sitting with the fantastic XBX, but rather i would be stuck with the original xbox one and poorly running and ported games.
    And same thing happned in last gen with the PS3, Sony were forced to up their game, and they did, they brought trophies, they brought PS plus, which forced MS to offer games with their gold subs, they removed the nonsense of locked saved games, and they pushed 1080p HD BR drives making 1080p a standard everyone moved to....... so long may these two fight it out, that way as a gamer and consumer i will always win, as it should be, both should never get to the stage were they think the consumer is there for them, as we see happening now with Nvida and Intel and unholy mess of ludicrious prices and arrogance and contempt toward their consumers. lol
     
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  14. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    ALL PC that run windows, can pretty much play games from 10+ years ago on newer systems, said games run better 99% of the time at higher resolutions and higher preset, short of the game NEEDING specific version of windows to run and even then the have compatibility mode so they will run, that is what I after on consoles, before ps4 gen most consoles had custom cpu/gpu that arnt and were not based off PC hardware architecture which one major reason why BC was after though cause it need either be emulated which take crap ton power emulate that architecture which one reason why sony just incuded the hw in in ps3 before they phased it all out, followed by the OS the system it ran was always changing, going forward all consoles now are based of HW architecture the PC use which takes the HW issue out of the picture, at that point from HW view it would run faster and better cause it just more powerfull verison of what was used, it comes down to OS be thing same OS just faster and better, IF it like OS change akinn to Windows to Linux to Mac then it becomes issue simple do to OS.

    What I want to see is completely possible now it simply comes down to Sony not changing the OS so much it like comparing Windows to linux to Mac which completely different which ehy when trying to play game on mac that was made for windows it need to be emulated, and emulation take alot power to do accurately compared to power the native system needs so what was need to run it great on native OS has now most likely doubled at very least cause of the emulations need.
     
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  15. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    Well, that's what "backwards compatible" means :p

    Also, don't forget that on PC you can have emulation software that gives you backwards compatibility with ancient stuff, even. DOSBox can run games from the 80's and 90's!

    And there's other emulators too. On PC you can play any PS1 or PS2 game you like (and PS3 is being worked on currently.) On a PS4, you can't. So in a sense, a PC is better at PlayStation backwards compatibility than an actual PlayStation.

    When it comes to being able to play your old games, PC really is king. Yes, there are exceptions (like Windows 3 and Windows 95 games) that require more effort to get running, but overall, PC is just the most compatible platform.
     

  16. vbetts

    vbetts Don Vincenzo Staff Member

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    To be fair, unless it's officially backed and supported by Sony you can't really bring emulation into the mix. For starters, PS1 and PS2 you need the bios file which unless you dump yourself it's kind of not legal to do, and then you have to think if the games you have were obtained legally or not. PS3 you can download the firmware from Sony direct, so that emulator is more legal than any.

    But emulation is kind of a grey area I'd say to give another advantage as a PC. There are also a number of games both on Xbox One and PS4 that were older games that were released or at least have a remastered.
     
  17. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    If you want to play your old PS1 and PS2 games, then there's a good chance you already have a PS1 or a PS2. So you have the BIOS.

    If you sold your PS1/PS2, then yes, it's copyright infringement to download it. But that still doesn't impact your ability to play your old games. It may not be legal, but it works just the same.

    Your legally obtained PS1/PS2 games are not playable on your PS4, but are on PC. There is no need to bring piracy into the mix, really. You could make the same argument with a PS3. You have to think if the games were obtained legally or not, or whether you're using a modded/chipped PS3 with copied games.

    If we're comparing apples to apples, then we assume your games are originals, and they can be played on a PC or on an early PS3. (Later PS3 models dropped PS1 compat.) If your modded PS3 plays pirated PS1/PS2 games, then the PC also does that, just the same.

    The PS4 plays none of them.

    So really, whether or not the games were obtained legally or not, is a different question.

    That is true. But you can still play your old, legal copies of PS1/PS2 games on PC with a pirated BIOS. The fact that the BIOS is not licensed to you does not hinder your ability play games.

    If you really are hell-bent on being 100% legal, you can also just buy a PS1 and a PS2 from ebay for like $10 (they don't need to be functional, all you need is the BIOS chip, and non-functioning consoles on eBay are dirt cheap.)

    If you were a marketing person, then yes. If you're just a gamer at home, the advantage is clear. You can play your old games, which all you care about. It's not unfair at all to recognize the advantage emulation gives your PC.

    That's not backwards compatility though. That's a port of a game you need to buy again. Backwards compat is about opening the CD/DVD case, putting the disc in my machine, and playing it.
     
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  18. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    Meh, they will move to the appstore model, most likely.

    Multiple hardware revisions, one store for everything.
     
  19. Neo Cyrus

    Neo Cyrus Ancient Guru

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    Absolute nonsense. It was developed as a compute engine, yes, but of course they had gaming in mind as well from the start.
     
  20. fry178

    fry178 Maha Guru

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    @RealNC
    lol, now that i read it again, i saw i wrote the opposite of what i meant.
    newer games e.g. stuff like dx12 will require win 10, and not run on 7/8.
    same way they will have to cut off backwards stuff at some point to go forward with newer hardware and/or features...
     

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