Sony Preps CMOS sensor at 127.68 million pixels with Global Shutter Funtion

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Mar 9, 2021.

  1. slyphnier

    slyphnier Master Guru

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    So why the hell are you arguing with me when the real-world result shows no improvement?
    Ugh resorting to synthetic tests and theory again?
    Samsung's sensor is no different - it gives an impressive number but is no better than the competition. It's not bad, just like the Demon isn't slow, but it's misleading.

    this whole point u wrote, ok lets pick one review then, like from anandtech
    https://www.anandtech.com/show/16447/the-xiaomi-mi-11-review/6
    This method of zooming in can be extremely competitive when we compare the Mi 11 against all other devices which feature a more traditional 12MP class sensor setup, the Mi 11 here for example destroys the iPhone 12 Pro’s camera setup, and also does better than the 64MP unit of the S21.
    enough to prove its not just about the number. you can compare those picture yourself


    I'm arguing only to defend my point. You're the one who is getting all pissy about my thoughts.
    and what u proved so far ?
    if ur in thought its gimmick and believe it, ok i respect what ur believe and wont question u further
    the things is u saying it more like claim, thats why i am questioning that

    12MP is plenty for most people.
    plenty for u, but different to others, we want better smartphone camera
     
  2. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    Yes, we've already established that this sensor's one and only trick is outdoor digital zoom, just as the Dodge Demon's only trick is going fast in a straight line. You keep bringing up the same things over and over again as though it's new info.
    You yourself have already acknowledged the proof I provided: the sensor doesn't provide better pictures than 12MP cameras [except for outdoor digital zoom]. Again, that doesn't mean the images are worse, they're just not better.
    Do you know what a gimmick actually is? Because I think you're arguing with me thinking it's something different.
    And there: that's all the proof I needed to know that you're just butthurt about someone calling out the sensor for what it really is.
    Everyone who cares about image quality knows that there's far more to a camera than MP count. That's why phones like the Pixel or iPhone have better-ranked cameras, because they prefer to give the actual best image quality, and not just what's best in theory. I know several people who deliberately choose iPhones, specifically for the camera.
     
  3. slyphnier

    slyphnier Master Guru

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    You yourself have already acknowledged the proof I provided: the sensor doesn't provide better pictures than 12MP cameras [except for outdoor digital zoom].
    that zoom alone already improvement and prove its not gimmick
    and if digital zoom showed improvement, then in ur logic, the rest of images not showing improvement?
    it does, overally performance is improvement, it just to ur eyes, probably it not showing much
    even more, camera software still catching up, so what u seeing now is not the end result

    that's all the proof I needed to know that you're just butthurt about someone calling out the sensor for what it really is.
    what ? those article saying improvement, so its not just me
    go say that to those reviewers, tell them wrote false/misleading article as 108mp is pure-gimmick

    That's why phones like the Pixel or iPhone have better-ranked cameras, because they prefer to give the actual best image quality, and not just what's best in theory. I know several people who deliberately choose iPhones, specifically for the camera
    When it been said in few article its already reach of its limit, just look at that iphone zoom performance is just bad
    do u have problem with short-term memory ?
     
  4. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    It's one niche feature. It is a valid selling point, but is it worth the worse low-light image quality? I would argue not.
    Not sure why improved digital zoom means other images see improvement. Remember, the digital zoom is only good in bright situations, where you don't need to crank up the ISO/gain.
    It's "to my eyes", it's to literally everyone who knows anything about photography. Note how I defer to the opinions of reviewers and not my own. You yourself stated that you wouldn't argue if this was a matter of opinion, so I already know you don't care what my opinion is (which is fine, I don't take offense to that). Therefore, it's not worth stating.
    Camera software is part of the problem. I have to remind you this over and over again: these high MP sensors require software post-processing to yield better results, because they have to compensate for the low sensitivity caused by pixel density. If you have a low-density sensor, you don't have to do as much post-processing, and therefore your images look better.
    Yes, an improvement in zooming. And again, only in outdoor use. We've already established that's better. Without outdoor zoom, it's not better. Since you like cherry-picking results, take a look at this, from the same article:
    https://www.anandtech.com/show/16447/the-xiaomi-mi-11-review/8
    Look who gets "destroyed" now. The article itself even acknowledges how pixel density is a problem here. But clearly, you remained willfully ignorant of that
    Remember: phone cameras have an inherent disadvantage to low-light image quality compared to "normal" cameras, so to make it worse is a big deal.
    And I have already established that there's only so much you can do to fight physics. So yeah, you're still the one with a memory problem.
     

  5. slyphnier

    slyphnier Master Guru

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    worse low-light image quality? I would argue not.
    if check those reviews, low-light image quality performance on par to 12mp sensor
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    that s21 64mp vs s21U 108mp, 108mp showing way better image, compared to iphone it still great also
    and that before consideration improvement potential in software side

    Camera software is part of the problem. I have to remind you this over and over again: these high MP sensors require software post-processing to yield better results, because they have to compensate for the low sensitivity caused by pixel density. If you have a low-density sensor, you don't have to do as much post-processing, and therefore your images look better.
    saying that when google and iphone basically rely on software ? cmon dude

    Look who gets "destroyed" now. The article itself even acknowledges how pixel density is a problem here. But clearly, you remained willfully ignorant of that
    what u talking about ? did u even see the images ?
    when the article itself saying low-light capabilities of the Mi 11 is that it’s a plenty adequate shooter with some strengths as well as some weaknesses.

    The capabilities of the sensor are still plenty, and in general it’s a competent shooter. On the ultra-wide module however, the sensor really is far too weak, and even night mode cannot save it, producing images that are far too dark and barely usable compared to other high-end competitors.

    Those u saw probably 13mp ultra-wide cam ones
     
  6. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    I don't know much about the S21's camera but I assume it's just a cut down version of the 21U camera, so yeah, it will yield similar results.
    The iPhone results are so obviously better, are you blind? You can see so much more. Sure, maybe it's a bit heavy on saturation but at least you can make out a lot more details.
    They do rely on software - I never said otherwise. But they depend on less processing. Every additional layer of processing you need is compromising quality.
    I'm genuinely confused what you think you're looking at.
    And?
     
  7. slyphnier

    slyphnier Master Guru

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    The iPhone results are so obviously better, are you blind?
    u are blind, or u just like over saturation ?
    well that not all, there is night mode and we are not talking about pro-mode yet
    [​IMG]
    look at those branch detail


    I'm genuinely confused what you think you're looking at.
    Those u saw probably 13mp ultra-wide cam ones
    And?

    ur head is trash or what?
    what do u think multiple camera setup use for in nowdays phone ?
    did u not even know most ultra-wide cam bad in lowlight?
    look at the spec
    Main : 108MP Module f/1.85 w/OIS
    Ultra-Wide : 13MP f/2.4 123° FoV (13MP OmniVision OV13B10)

    https://images.anandtech.com/galleries/7923/Mi11_IMG_20210211_234314.jpg
    https://images.anandtech.com/galleries/7923/iPhone12Pro_IMG_0157.jpg
    this is from main camera

    and u just embarrassed urself
    u really want to say 108mp sensor sucks that bad are u LMAO
     
  8. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    @slyphnier
    Clearly, you're not capable of staying objective. You're now resorting to hypocrisy (seriously, you get all whiny about saturation, and then show how the S21U is the more saturated image) and then move to personal attacks in all your responses.

    You refuse to acknowledge facts, you cherry-pick results, make up excuses, continue to gaslight, and deliberately ignore the questions that you don't have answers to.

    So no, I didn't embarrass myself. I'm not the one who is trying to justify the money burnt on a gimmick. I'm not the one being willfully ignorant.
     
  9. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    Film is better :)
     
  10. slyphnier

    slyphnier Master Guru

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    You refuse to acknowledge facts, you cherry-pick results, make up excuses, continue to gaslight, and deliberately ignore the questions that you don't have answers to.

    i just showed what u asking for, u claim low-light sucks right
    but its not, so there the proof
    didnt like my picture comparison, then you can find yours, why keep with sh*t excuses?

    So no, I didn't embarrass myself. I'm not the one who is trying to justify the money burnt on a gimmick. I'm not the one being willfully ignorant.
    this another stupid point again that u been saying many times
    since when u burnt more money for single camera sensor ? how much it add prices to buyer ?

    that m11 phone is around $800, that with SD888, 120hz amoled display, 256gb storage, etc.
    now compared to $1200+ iphone12promax or $700 pixel5 , i consider reasonable enough

    for galaxy S lineup like, S21ultra the price is always similar iphone
    samsung always use apple iphone as base-point
     

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