Sony Playstation 5 Processor SoC Die Photos

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Feb 16, 2021.

  1. Hilbert Hagedoorn

    Hilbert Hagedoorn Don Vito Corleone Staff Member

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    It's always interesting to see a chip up-close and personal. As you all know. AMD has been behind the one empowering the new Xbox and PlayStation 5, that last for that last one pictures emerged....

    Sony Playstation 5 Processor SoC Die Photos
     
  2. Neo Cyrus

    Neo Cyrus Ancient Guru

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    They super cheaped out on the GPU portion yet multi-platform games on the PS5 have outperformed the much more powerful XBSX versions in more than one occasion, particularly in AssCreed Downgraded Vikings. If optimization is that criminally bad on the XBSX, imagine how piss poor the PC ports are compared to what they should be.
     
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  3. asturur

    asturur Maha Guru

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    Cheaped out or not, i believe is better that consoles are on the lower-medium end of the spectrum.
    Otherwise higher end pc build becomes a necessity more than an option.
    Yes pcs have a lot of non efficencies compared to the hardware they have, generic api, a big OS and probably more.
    I somehow prefer it in this way, anyway games will be tailored around the lower specced console.
     
  4. fellix

    fellix Member Guru

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    The cut-down FPU choice is understandable, considering that wide vector math is not critical for games and most consumer apps in the context of a console. Heavy FP workloads in this case are already off-loaded to the GPU via compute and graphics tasks. The savings here are really concerning peak TDP, so more power is available to the GPU portion of the SOC.
     
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  5. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    If one could run linux on PS5/XSX, I would get one. Or if XSX could run full windows.
    But we all know what would follow...

    ... crypto, no more consoles in west.

    Because crypto became game of cookie-clicker.
     
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  6. Kevin Mauro

    Kevin Mauro Master Guru

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    Weird... why? Strictly software related?
    Is the PS OS still a linux distro / derivative?
     
  7. Bsac

    Bsac New Member

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    Sony played it smart and did not gimp their diskless console like MS did. When it comes to cross platform games it's easier for developers to optimize for the PS5 when both versions are functionally the same aside from the disk. Sony also gave developers a head start when it came to early development and optimization tools. It's still early in the console wars so things could change and tip towards MS favor which clearly has the more powerful hardware. That being said as we can see having the most powerful hardware does not always equal the best performance if the software is not fully optimized to take advantage of it.
     
  8. Undying

    Undying Ancient Guru

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    This just shows consoles dont have the real rdna2 inside. The chip is far behind rx6800 or even upcoming rx6700 series.
     
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  9. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Welcome to the forum.

    I think that people get what hey pay for with consoles. XSS is toy you buy for your kids. XSX is what you put into living room next to your big TV.
     
  10. Kosmoz

    Kosmoz Active Member

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    Not only.

    It's a combo of MS SDK (still inferior or late to the party, whatever floats) and a more streamlined optimized hardware in the PS5 where everything works at or close to 100% efficiency and almost no bottleneck between CPU+system memory+GPU+SSD.

    XSX is not like that at all and has parts of it bottle-necking it, hardware wise + that SDK issue.

    If you want an analogy: PS5 is like a BMW M3 and XSX like a ‘Eleanor’ Mustang Shelby. Maybe not such an extreme difference for the consoles, but you get my point, one is very balanced and efficient at being a good all rounder, the other one has brute force power and goes fast in the straights, but is lacking in other sectors...

    Oh and this is happening while the PS'5 black box of power (Geometry Engine) is barely being discovered and optimized for, or the Kraken compression that can peak at 22GB/s (the average is 9.5GB/s), or the SSD+IO when it will be fully taken advantage of like it will be in Ratchet & Clank (switching worlds on the fly) and in Unreal Engine 5 streaming assets and open worlds with crazy detail and density in real time... so expect even more power from PS5, despite the specs not showing that at first glance.

    All I said here can be know from the Road to PS5 presentation that Sony did and many ignored or said it was boring.
    Of course they have real RDNA2 inside, you mean they don't have full RDNA2, as in 100% of it functions and characteristics. Notably the Infinity Cache is missing, the other parts are not so important.

    That's true, but then again RDNA2 which is in the RX 6000s series does not have the Geometry Engine that's in the PS5, that will be in RDNA3 (or something similar), most likely.
     
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  11. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Here is the thing. PS5 is RDNA one point something. And has Custom Geometry Engine as you wrote. But there is no saying that it will be used in RDNA3 till RDNA3 comes and uses it.
    It is custom piece of HW which may end up being used in some way or may not.

    On other hand, feature wise (blocks that execute operations on data) XSX has full RDNA2.

    PS5 being bottleneck free is joke. It is like saying that improved geometry engine makes RDNA1 bottleneck free.

    In terms of PS5 vs XSX, each needs different optimizations. PS5 around its Geometry Engine, XSX around shader throughput and INT4/8 features.
    Where XSX uses RDNA2 based Variable Rate Shading, PS5 uses custom override and simulates it through different means.

    Fun fact: If you take feature change list from RDNA1 to RDNA2, XSX has everything except IF which it does not need as much, due to quite wide IMC for given TFLOPs.
    PS5 on other hand misses most of new HW features and does some of things "in Cerny's way".
     
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  12. Neo Cyrus

    Neo Cyrus Ancient Guru

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    I don't know if the overall result is mostly due to software but it's at least partial. Sony's development tools are supposedly iterative and devs are used to it, meanwhile Ubisoft apparently doesn't give a crap to properly use the Microsoft tools. But there's more to it, Sony tend to a lie, a lot, but supposedly there's a hardware portion they very ambiguously call a geometry engine giving devs more control over resource management.

    As for the OS, I'm not sure since I haven't seen an official source talking about it.
     
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  13. Kosmoz

    Kosmoz Active Member

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    Call it RDNA 1.5 as you want, but people that usually do that, do it to denigrate the PS5 vs XSX, when it's clearly not the case in reality as it's performance is on par if not better in most 3rd party games so far, in one way or another. It's already been proven in numerous games and benchmarks.

    Those custom designs are as good if not better than the copy/paste RDNA 2 parts XSX has. I said in my previous post that it has "almost no bottleneck", you can't achieve perfection or 100% in anything. You can give it any number and the one given to XSX would be much more inferior and that is because the PS5 design is made to function efficiently and at full speed most of the time (again from the Sony presentation, that you and others ignore, or think that is a fairy-tale maybe).

    Every tech XSX has from RDNA2 and is missing in PS5, the PS5 has as a different custom tech doing the same thing or similar. Both PS5 and XSX are missing the Infinity Cache for example, but the PS5 has the extra Geometry Engine, Kraken Compression Unit, Scrub Cachers which are a few things that XSX has none of. Even the Tempest Engine (not only for sound, but it can also do physics too) is more advance/better than what XSX has.

    All of the above parts that are in PS5 plus the homogeneous design based on speed and consistency: PS5's CPU + higher clocked GPU (which Cerny explained the advantages of) + unified memory bandwidth at 448GB/s for all it's 16GB (not like XSX segmented 10GB @ 560GB/s and 6GB @ 336GB/s) and the super fast SSD+IO (both custom, not only the SSD is much faster than the one in XSX, but the memory controller has six priority levels vs two on XSX, or current PC ones) - all these make the PS5 a better design.

    I tried to remember everything, but I'm sure I left something out. Anyway for me it's pretty clear which architecture is the more efficient one, that plus the SDK advantage (so far, at least) for PS5 and you can see why PS5 is doing good and will be even better in the future.

    There is a reason most of the Xbots are silent now (as compared to before launch) and MS is not waving the "most powerful console" slogan anymore, but changed it to "most powerful Xbox". The reality proves the facts.
     
  14. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Real world performance vs real word Image quality.
    Sure, Cerny's soft hack method may prove to deliver higher performance over dedicated HW block. But do not think it does not come at cost of IQ.
    Then again. PS5 has advantage of time. It is not RDNA2 because Sony wanted it early. And they used that time to get software advantage.
    This advantage will be gone over time as SDKs for XSX catch up with RDNA2. And start to actually use capabilities like INT4/8 for something.

    PS5 has head start, XSX has better meaningful HW which means that SW can catch up and then run circles around PS5. And it is up to MS to do it.
    And that applies to IMC too. I did explained it in details in other threads. Will not repeat it here. But take XSX refresh with 20GB VRAM.
    I torn Fallacy of storage arguments dozen times over too. As well as 16GB of VRAM on RX 6800 XT that can use half of it only as cache as long as fps target is above 60.

    Want to eat Cerny's marketing? Do. But don't be surprised when things turn out to never be way his marketing made you believe.
    Huang's statements about magical chip in G-Sync modules and incoming features look honest in light of Cerny's statements. Because Huang may have hoped to deliver. Cerny knows as well as anyone with half a brain and calculator what can and can't be delivered.

    Think about features you worship from practical side of things. Stop accepting statements from someone you see as authority as facts. Go and Fact check them. Model scenario based on what it is supposed to do. And think about real requirements and how things need to be. Think about consequences when those needs are fulfilled.
     
  15. Kosmoz

    Kosmoz Active Member

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    Cerny's marketing? You mean the things he said and turned out to be real actually? It's not only marketing when Sony did actually deliver... it's here we all seen it how good it is and it will get even better.
    You just ignored all the great tech (I explained above) in the PS5 and hypocritically accuse me of eating marketing, marketing which turned out to be true actually not lies, but you are drinking Uncle Phil's Kool-Aid about the "most powerful console" which is a joke so far...

    Don't even get me started on the games, you could have the most powerful console in the universe and I couldn't give a rats *** about it if the games were 1000 mediocre games like they are for years on Xbox. PS5 proved and it's still proving that it has the best games, it's MS turn to impress... in 1-2-3 years time maybe... maybe...

    Facts and reality vs hope and dreams, yet you and the Xbots like you still try to spin the narrative... Pffft, hilarious and pathetic at the same time.

    Let me be clear, as soon as XSX constantly beats PS5 in IQ and/or performance across the board I will have no issues accepting and admitting that, because I have a spine and common sense, unlike others that don't, and are die hard blind Xbots.

    I have nothing more to say to you, you're a waste of my time.
     

  16. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    And zero thinking was done, right? No math at all at your side, right?

    That's why I rarely waste time here on providing brutal evidence. Because very few people will even read numerical proof.
    Tech docs. Or anything else of real substance.

    Yet alone think about it. Tell me when you do think about it for yourself and do math.
    Maybe you'll find something I did somehow overlook.
     
  17. Glottiz

    Glottiz Master Guru

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    Your information is outdated. This was only the case for first couple of early games. Some more recent titles run at much higher res on XSX than PS5, for example Hitman 3. It's too early to say how PS5 power stacks up against XSX in the long run, but I think there will be more surprises down the road.
     
  18. MaikelSZ

    MaikelSZ New Member

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