Sony PlayStation 5 Dilemma: might be too expensive

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Feb 17, 2020.

  1. Stormyandcold

    Stormyandcold Ancient Guru

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    Nintendo makes games based around fun mechanics, they're in a 1-man race. Everyone else has to chase graphics to compete. Totally different outlook vs Sony and MS.
     
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  2. Neo Cyrus

    Neo Cyrus Ancient Guru

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    Just to clarify for anyone who doesn't know, "fun mechanics first" is literally their policy on how they make games. Any game they greenlight has to have a game system built and deemed "fun" before anything else is accepted. This is how they've always been.

    Too bad they take the "Let's just have fun games, ignore graphics, and take the idea of using ancient hardware to the extreme, for as large of a profit margin as we can get away with, on hardware on launch" philosophy, way way WAY too far. Pick any generation. I find the Nintendo Switch repugnant; the janky-ass frame rates, often limited to 30 at best, and variable resolutions go far past the point of tolerance for me. Forget using the (at the time) upcoming Tegra chip for their Switch, no, they didn't even use the already decrepit about-to-be-replaced chip either, the used the one from a generation before that one.

    Maybe making that amount of profit margin on hardware at launch is good for them, but they push it so far it seems like they'd lure a lot more buyers if they threw a penny here and there at performance/graphics. That and it'd be a lot less of a pain in the ass for the developers if they didn't have less resources to work with than what current mobile phones have. They could get games out faster if it weren't so annoying/limited. Ever wondered why the Nintedo Wii was instantly emulated at such a high degree of accuracy? It used literally the same chip as the GameCube, just with higher clocks.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2020
  3. moo100times

    moo100times Member Guru

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    @neocyrus i appreciate that you do not enjoy the handheld experience with them, and is probably partly one of the reasons you find yourself on an enthusiast forum. However Nintendo are making money hand over fist, the switch has had success that rivals and may well exceed the ds because they know what the market wants, or at least their market wants.

    Most people play on middle tier or ageing hardware and have great experiences with the game that are not significantly harmed by the hardware. The switch for what it does I feel it does well and really does local multiplayer great, as well as continuing to produce excellent software which are often unique and unrivaled compared to other developers. I would also say it is enjoyable to play multiplayer where your opponents wallet does not confer them an indirect advantage for example with relative FPS they get.
    As for a comparison to mobile, I don't think they shy away from it, I think they embrace it. Pokémon go, mario run, mario kart on mobile - they give just enough of their core IP out to draw in new punters to enter their service, and use generational successes to capture people of all ages.

    Simply put, I would say they are an excellent example of how to run a business and access their core market. As for difficulty to developers, you may be right but their success has drawn loads of developers to their format regardless of the difficulty (a la PS3), and anecdotally I know of lots of people who own the switch who have repurchased software they already owned to play on the go e.g. Skyrim, Witcher 3, doom. Again comparing to the DS, but I remember the DS having N64 ports, doing them well enough and it being a great feature that helped it take off.
     
  4. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    Nintendo is bullet-proof.

    Each platform will have:

    Mario games
    Luigi games
    Zelda games
    Smash Brothers

    and so on and so forth.

    Zelda: Breath of the wild has exceeded 18 million units sold...$60 X 18,000,000 = ‭$1,080,000,000‬
    Mario Kart 8 has exceeded 30 million units sold...$60 X 30,000,000 = $1,800,000,000

    I could list them all, but suffice to say and, as my opening statement confirms; Nintendo is bullet-proof.

    They own the most profitable IP in the games industry bar none, so, all they have to do is release (on every console the release) one of each of its IP and they make BILLIONS.

    Technical hardware is (as others have pointed out) irrelevant - and I know I bring this up a lot, but running the Unreal Engine to author your games to Switch and doing the whole 'multi-platform' releases makes sense. Nintendo use UE4, and look at the money they make...

    It's less about the platform, and more about the IP and how well the game is made - Microcuck and Fhony are trying to accomplish both, and although they are really good at both, it is still two goals versus one.

    If you have one goal, you are more likely to achieve it - with two, you got more pressure on your time to achieve both goals and succeed both. Microcuck with the XB1 had too many goals...camera, motion tracker, voice activation, media streaming, DISC playback, music tie-ins/colabs and hey! look what happened!

    One goal is better than two...Microcuck had fifty goals, and achieved NONE OF THEM.

    Such a joke, and I'm sorry for reaffirming my utter shock twice in the same thread about how badly Microcuck messed up the Xbox from such a dominating position...
     
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  5. XP-200

    XP-200 Ancient Guru

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    Can i join your white elephant club as in 1992 i paid £399 for the Amiga 500 A570 cd-rom add-on and £499 for the philips CD-I and Mpeg cartridge to watch movies spread across two discs, because the future is CD. lol

    Oh and i still have the CD-i and discs in a cupboard somewhere. lol
     
  6. Neo Cyrus

    Neo Cyrus Ancient Guru

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    @moo100times I have no doubt what you say is true. I just believe they could have found a sweet spot where they could make slightly more overall profit by luring in those like myself by spending a tiny amount more on the hardware. There's always a market of people that are just slightly out of reach, getting them to buy one Nintendo products makes it all the more likely for them to become Nintendo customers in general.

    That and it's massively disappointing that their current gen full blown console, not just their portable, is weaker than flagship phone, and so fragile. I just checked prices on Amazon... $400 (CAD) for a Switch, and $380 for an XB1X bundled with a game. Nintendo had a massive amount of leeway.
     
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  7. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    People do not care about tech, they care about games - just ask Microcuck that...
     
  8. Neo Cyrus

    Neo Cyrus Ancient Guru

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    We all know that, but the Switch seemed like half a step forward and two steps back. Even for someone who doesn't care about graphics or performance it's just bad in mobile mode. Nintendo fans will always buy their stuff but even they notice the quality issues this time around.
     
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  9. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    https://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/score/metascore/all/switch/filtered?view=condensed&sort=desc

    I do not disagree with you, because I do not own a Nintendo Switch, but; these scores are (even if the user scores) exceptional. The games win, and Nintendo is bullet-proof as a result of this very high QC they have always applied to their games - and (mainly) owning the best IP in the console games industry.

    Some companies are very good at 'managing IP' to ensure it endures. Rockstar is another, but Nintendo makes more money than Rockstar and have more success in video games than them.

    Some companies are very bad at managing IP...like Disney, but that's OT.
     
  10. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    I would not call Mario/Zelda/Luigi/Smash Bro or even Metriod or Pickchu pokemon games best IP in the world,most widely know sure cause they been around for long time, I have not like mario/metriod/zelda game since snes era most should not be in 3d imo and there IP are no longer something I would buy there console for.

    I grew up Nintendo didnt , not saying Nintendo is dying or anything I just saying from my point view there not console I will buy stop with kiddy theme forget about all these weird crap controllers they keep coming up with to be different. I dont even like game on sony or xbox that us these stupid move the controller up and down and left right and twist this and that crap. I want to sit down and relax and play my games not with normal controller that dont require me to move the controller around cause they want to use this gyroscopic junk.

    SNES was golden age of Nintendo, after that i been down hill imo as lest as far as I am concnered. there have total of maybe 4 games since snes console that I wanted, but I never got them cause I wasnt gona buy the console for 1 game, and none of those games where Nintendo IP they were elusive to there Console though.

    Sooner or later Nintendo reliance on there IP isnt gona be enough one day all the people that living and breath by Nintendo IP are gona be dead. if they dont adapt at somepoint IT will back fire on them.

    There was point where they were making Zelda game that was darker and more grown up then what they keep doing. it got canned and my hopes of Zelda game that didnt look like it was aimed at 10 year old was dashed. I dont expect blood and gore and all that stuff that cause it all over used at this point. but also dont want game aimed at 10years when I was 10 that was what I wanted I am now 40. Games can be made fun without making look like it aimed at 10year old. or have to flinge controller around have have huge tablet sized controller

    I have my NES and SNES those are last nintendo system I liked.

    Nintedo isnt even console I Think about when look for consoles at this point. I would love if Nintendo actual made console and games I wanted again. cause I would by it in heartbeat.

    I not ragging on Nintendo I just saying what they been doing and are still doing is no longer something I want my tastes have changed in 30 years Nintendo remained the same all that time and have refused to change only that has change is they keep give up wierd and stupid controlers each time they make new systems.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2020

  11. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    aherm
    [​IMG]
     
  12. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    So much wrong with this, so; line by line.

    The Nintendo IP is worth so much money, I would not even be able to value it. $2tn? $6tn? Without breaking a sweat. It's not about the subjective value, but the intrinsic value of the IP. Are the games good? Yes. Do they appeal to everyone? No.

    Yes, Nintendo games are games for the younger audience and fans. Tastes do change, but Nintendo does not. They respect their IP more than Kathleen Kennedy respects Star Wars, which I regard as second place to Nintendo in terms of IP. Those controllers are funny, sure, but they are not worried about the competition and 'beating' the competition...they have always carved their own marble, and always will.

    I find it familiar to apportion greatness to moments in our lives that have more meaning than others, particularly when we are young and adventurous...so, surely that is true for young audiences today, and; tomorrow? You loved the SNES and call it the 'golden age'...the same I'm sure will be true for those on the Switch in twenty years' time.

    You can imagine I disagree with the notion that Nintendos' reliance on their IP will not last. It has lasted for nearly as long as I have been on this planet - by proxy, indirect and direct adoption by customers. Adaption and adaptation are not necessary, when your formulae works so well and is polished to a mirror'd shine. I recall Coca-Cola changing their formulae in the 80's...it was a disaster, and (subjectively) I feel that some felt it was almost anti-American to change something so American in its constituent parts, that the customers reeled when tasted it. It wasn't that is tasted bad, it's that it was changed. Mario, Luigi, Bowser - these things do not, and should not; ever change.

    Oh, lest we not forget the recent Sonic movie trailer reaction...understandable, or do you agree that Sonic should have adapted? That simple paragraph from you is something that I have thought about a lot regarding IP over the years. A helavalot. Unbeknownst to you.

    What you want? What about what you want in ten years from now, when you are 50?, or 60?, or 70? - should Mario be aimed at you then? It's fine and dandy to have an opinion of this, but really dude, if the games do not appeal to you, it is probably a good thing.

    Nintendo know what they are doing...and it pleases me to know that there are companies out there with the wherewithal to "stay on target" (another snipe at Kathleen) and not try to reinvent perfection.

    “A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever.”
    Shigeru Miyamoto
     
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  13. DocStr4ngelove

    DocStr4ngelove Member Guru

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    Still got nightmares about this reveal :D
     
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  14. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    "...I'm proud to announce a live-action Halo tv series..."

    ORLY?

    [​IMG]

    Still nothing....
     
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  15. KissSh0t

    KissSh0t Ancient Guru

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    Will there be a new controller for the new console or will it be the same as the One S?
     

  16. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    The value of IP dont make it the best it just make valueable, you might consider they have the best IP that dont mean everyone thinks that. you have your opinion I have mine and other have there own. Dont make the mistake of think just cause you think they have best IP that everyone thinks that. if that was true we would not have other consoles or other IP's.

    One person gold is another person coal value is in the eye beholder and Nintendo IP dont mater to me any more fact they dont have publisher support like they use to is another reason why they so reliant on there own IP and sooner or later that wont be enough they need the support 3rd party developers and publisher and I not only one that thinks that so what Nintendo do or dont do at this is not the topic of this thread either.

    As for the sonic trailer sonic needed to be changed to look like sonic plain and simple which what outrage was about. the fact that robitnik is short chubby person in the game but tall skinny person in the trailers is another miss justice
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2020
  17. DocStr4ngelove

    DocStr4ngelove Member Guru

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    Well to be fair the always-on-camera and DRM never came to life as well so no wonder they also forgot about the Halo series.

    Let's see what Sony & MS try to push down our throats this time. And with another inet outrage we can get rid of everything not really needed. ;)

    I <3 the www
     
  18. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    It's not the value alone, it is the way it is managed. Nintendo respect their IP by not destroying it, but supporting it.

    It's also not what I think, but feel and; is supported by 40 years of evidence that justsohappens to coincide with how I feel. I wasn't seeking out evidence to dismiss your point, rather than proving my point that happens to be aligned with Nintendo.

    Apps if it came across that way.
     
  19. KissSh0t

    KissSh0t Ancient Guru

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    I feel stupid, just realized the xbox post had an image of it xD

    Seems it is slightly different :x

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Digilator

    Digilator Master Guru

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    This article is because M$ paid for it, correct?

    Seems the XBOX will be a more powerful and more expensive console.
     

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