Some new cars don't have front bumpers?

Discussion in 'The Guru's Pub' started by jeffmorris, Sep 28, 2016.

  1. jeffmorris

    jeffmorris Ancient Guru

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    I think that some new cars don't have front bumpers. They have grilles where the bumpers are supposed to be. I think that if those cars get into accidents, their front ends would be destroyed.
     
  2. 0blivious

    0blivious Ancient Guru

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    Most (all?) new cars can handle 5mph crashes with minimal damage. Beyond that speed though, yes, you are often looking at thousands of dollars in repairs for a minor, front end collision (or rear).

    My old '89 Chevy Suburban could drive through objects and barely scratch the rubber lip on the big, steel bumper. Try that in a new Suburban.
     
  3. HeavyHemi

    HeavyHemi Ancient Guru

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    They don't have the classic 150 pound steel bumpers, but they are required to meet certain safety standards. The front end is designed to deform and absorb the impact. The crush zone is a very important safety feature of newer cars.
    Sure, the old style would survive a fender bender better, but be less safe in a high speed impact. A while back I had someone rear end me at a stop light in my 4" lifted 4x4 Ranger. I saw her coming in my rear view mirror. She had a death grip on the steering. She hit my rear end doing about 15-20 mph. Right before she hit I took my foot off the brake and rolled forward about 3 feet. All I had was a bit of scratching on my rear bumper. Her entire front end was pushed in about a foot.
     
  4. jeffmorris

    jeffmorris Ancient Guru

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    New cars don't have places for front license plates.
     

  5. scatman839

    scatman839 Ancient Guru

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    They do?

    I think it's optional in many states and countries, but it's still standard. I'm seeing it a touch less in the UK but 99% still have them.

    As for crumpling, you rather you die or your car gets wrecked? A plastic bumper does squat to hitting something either stationary or moving in a +-1 ton moving object. I don't think bumpers did much outside of warn the driver they're hitting an object like a roadside curb.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2016
  6. The Laughing Ma

    The Laughing Ma Ancient Guru

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    The point of this thread?

    I mean you haven't really given an example, the simple reason that new cars don;t have what you would traditionally call a bumper is because

    a). Material tech has meant that they can make better looking more shaped entire panels out of a single piece of formed polymer.
    b). Old cars had large sections of the body work made of formed metal, which was pretty expensive to produce, so you used a sacrificial 'bumper' to warn the driver of light impact and to save the expensive part in low speed accidents with the damage causing deformation of the bumper.

    Now a days you can hit the front or back of a car pretty robustly and the plastic / polymer will often spring back in to shape after the affect and on the off chance you do damage or break the front end most cars you can buy a replacement for a few hundred pounds and they only require a few fastening bolts to swap over.

    All the real protective crumple zone stuff is hidden behind the plastic.

    All new cars have a location for a front number plate since they are a legal requirement here in the UK.

    Of course the final thing is they just look so much better.

    My old 96 Corsa, look at that ugly bumper, also UV bleaching on that black bumper was a pain in the backside

    [​IMG]

    My current Ibiza FR

    [​IMG]
     
  7. ElementalDragon

    ElementalDragon Ancient Guru

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    Yea. ALL cars still have a "Bumper".... it's just not the old Jeep Wrangler style "Oh look, that's a huge bumper" bumper. Behind all that plastic is still a fairly large metal bar across the front.
     
  8. jeffmorris

    jeffmorris Ancient Guru

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    In USA, State DMVs usually require cars to have license plates on both end of the cars. Old cars had places on front bumpers for license plates. New cars don't have places for license plates and car dealers don't put license plate brackets/frames on new cars. They just drill holes in bumpers for license plates. A few new cars don't have any places for license plates. One example is the car shown in the image at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maser...-_Flickr_-_Alexandre_Prévot_(9)_(cropped).jpg
    A neighbor has that car and he didn't put front license plate on it.
     
  9. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    jeff, some cars are designed to use a "license plate bracket" and some cars are intended to have the license plate attached directly to the front bumper cover.

    Not all states in the USA require a front license plate. For that reason, a lot of dealerships won't install the front license plate brackets on vehicles that use one until the vehicle is sold.

    The "bumper" on the vehicle is actually hidden behind the piece of plastic or rubber that people typically consider to be the bumper. The actual bumper is now referred to as a "reinforcement bar".

    As Heavy pointed out, newer vehicles are actually designed to "deform" on impact. Various parts of the vehicle are designed to "deform" or "crush" a certain way when impacted to provide maximum energy absorption and dispersion, to prevent the energy from being transferred to the driver and passengers. This minimizes injuries to the driver and passengers. The passenger compartment is the only section of the vehicle that is not designed to "deform" on impact. All areas surrounding the passenger compartment have specifically engineered "crumple zones" for the purpose of reducing the amount of energy transferred to the driver and passenger as much as possible.
     
  10. ElementalDragon

    ElementalDragon Ancient Guru

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    Which is also why they're covered in plastic with a little wiggle room behind them prior to hitting the cross bar. Hurts significantly less should you accidentally hit a pedestrian than it would if they were met with cold steel.

    And yes, it's as sykozis said. Requirement of a front plate varies from state to state. Here in Pennsylvania it is not required, however i believe New York and New Jersey both require front plates. At least.... the VAST majority of cars that i see using a front plate are NY/NJ plates....

    Usually if the car was designed with a front plate in mind, there will be two little dimples on the front bumper, similar to what you usually find on the rear of a new car before they put the plate on, which is where the screws would be secured. Most new cars will have a front tow hook hole, typically covered by a small clipped-in plastic piece, which can be used to secure a front plate bracket, and not require any holes to be drilled. Kinda like my previous car (2013 Dodge Dart) and current car (2016 Smart ForTwo). On the Dart, you can see the cap just to the left of the front bumper... a kinda skewed square. Not as easy to spot in this picture of the Smart... but it's just above and to the right of the passenger side fog light.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2016

  11. Glidefan

    Glidefan Don Booze Staff Member

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    No the bumpers are not gone. They are just hidden. And less dangerous to pedestrians.
    City cars are now more likely to swoop you and make you go on the front bonnet instead of smack you dead.
    Of course if the driver is going at 100Kmh then yeah... you'll go on the bonnet and then launched forward.
     
  12. r3claim3r

    r3claim3r Ancient Guru

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    Most cars today have rather minimal bumpers compared to those, say, back in the 80's, when most cars had energy-absorbing bumpers that could take a 5 mph bump but would deform at higher speeds.

    Nowadays, bumpers don't protrude out nearly as far from the surrounding areas, leaving headlights, grilles, and what not exposed and vulnerable. If they protruded more, minor bumps would be far less expensive to repair.
     
  13. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    Minor bumps cause no damage to the actual bumper. Instead it just damages the bumper cover (the plastic or rubber that people keep mistakenly calling a bumper). The real bumper is hidden behind the plastic or rubber and is far stronger than the bumpers used on 80's and older vehicles. Bumpers on newer cars can survive an impact of upwards of 25mph with no damage at all.

    The construction of bumpers on newer cards tends to consist of an Ultra High Strength Steel or Aluminum bar (commonly referred to as a reinforcement bar). It's then got a piece of Styrofoam affixed to it. Then there is the plastic or rubber bumper cover on the outside.

    If people would learn how to drive properly, it wouldn't matter how far the bumper cover protrudes from the car....
     
  14. ElementalDragon

    ElementalDragon Ancient Guru

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    Probably should have explained that a little more in detail, and with a little more research. A 25mph impact is still a considerable impact. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a car that could take a 25mph impact with LITTLE damage, let alone no damage at all. Seriously... YouTube it. There's a reason the NHTSA does low-speed crash tests. Big cars or small... a 25mph impact is still a bumper crushingly, hood crumpling impact.

    The reinforcement bar behind the "bumper" on modern cars isn't really designed much differently from how they were on older cars. Yea... the steel is stronger, which allows them to make a bumper just as strong, but taking up less space. The major difference is that modern bumpers have their own crumple zone, so to speak, in that in the event of a low speed collision, the front bumper has some room to be pushed back towards the engine/passenger cab. This way should you happen to be involved in a low speed crash, it's far less likely for the repairs to be TOO extensive.... especially decreasing the risk of damaging the frame of the car... which isn't really repairable.
     
  15. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    As long as the "box" (aka passenger compartment) isn't deformed, the vehicle is fully repairable, including the frame. Frame repair is a common thing in collision repair.

    I was an I-CAR certified collision repair technician. I'm very familiar with the damage that occurs at various speeds. I've actually done the repairs.

    NHTSA does crash testing at 35mph and faster, btw. Testing at lower speeds doesn't provide the data necessary to determine if a vehicle is safe. During the crash tests, the airbags have to deploy. Newer airbag systems deploy based on impact severity. Not all airbags will deploy below 35mph as it's not always necessary.
     

  16. ElementalDragon

    ElementalDragon Ancient Guru

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    If that's the case, then why are there quite a few crash tests on YouTube apparently performed by the NHTSA, at 25mph? Can't really say they're not testing it at 25mph since they even have "25 MPH" on the label on the side of the car they're crashing. By the looks of things, they crash test cars at that speed to test the safety of cars in low-speed collisions if the occupant(s) aren't wearing seatbelts.

    Here's an example.... actually done with a 2013 Dodge Dart like i used to drive.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAyxWajd4-s

    And i have to say.... it's a little bit mesmerizing, and a little bit terrifying watching the end of that video. For how little seems to happen from the impact aside from the front end collapse and the passengers hitting the airbags when you're seeing the passenger cab, it's crazy how much stuff actually shifts around under the car. Exhaust system shifts like mad, coil springs get a bit of an arch to one side... can even see the entire back of the car shifting and deforming itself as it goes from 25 to 0 in an instant.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2016
  17. 0blivious

    0blivious Ancient Guru

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    Cars with frame damage should never be allowed on the road again. There's a reason the insurance company called it a "total loss" and it goes beyond costing more to fix than it's worth. As a good vehicle, it's spent.

    Then some goobers at a junk yard decide they can refurbish it and sell it. The chances of it being done properly are a total crapshoot. Alignment issues, often electrical problems. Rattles, things don't quite line up. the car was in a major accident, after all.

    Avoid a "salvage" title vehicle like the plague. "Rebuilt" titled may also be questionable. ...or, maybe you like headaches. :p
     
  18. LimitbreakOr

    LimitbreakOr Master Guru

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    I think this is a good time to link this video, granted that both cars are garbage compared to say the benz of their time but it shows the standard that was acceptable of the time and now.

    https://youtu.be/joMK1WZjP7g
     
  19. Leafblower

    Leafblower Ancient Guru

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    It's probably to make it more aerodynamic so it doesn't use so much fuel.
     
  20. ElementalDragon

    ElementalDragon Ancient Guru

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    .... because you couldn't make a steel bumper aerodynamic? Pretty sure they have the capabilities to make a reinforced steel bumper that doesn't remind you of a railroad tie. It's just that a plastic over-molding hurts less if you accidentally hit someone, and costs less to repair if you accidentally hit a tree or something.
     

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