SoftQuadro4 vs SoftGL in Maya 4.5

Discussion in 'RivaTuner Advanced Discussion forum' started by augie, Mar 28, 2003.

  1. augie

    augie Active Member

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    Hi,

    I was wondering if there are any Maya users out there who could tell me which works better -- GF4 Softquadro or Radeon 9X00 SoftGL mod.

    I've been reading scattered benchmarks and bits and pieces of info out there. I found out that the GF4 softquadro cards are not equivalent to Quadro 4 cards, but that the Radeon 9x00 SoftGL cards _are_ identical to FireGL X1 and Z1 cards.

    I've seen benchmarks of Max 5 using Ti4600, but they did not compare it to X1 or Z1. And I cannot find any card roundups anywhere that use Maya as a benchmark.

    I saw on some message board that if you're into Maya you should use FireGL X1 or Z1 over Softquadro4 Ti4600. Can anyone confirm this and tell me why? (The author mentioned hardware overlays or something like that).

    I want to get the best possible performance, but I do not want to buy a professional $$$ card. I work in both Max 5 and Maya 4.5, and do a lot of modeling, animation, and real-time texture work. I'm currently using a GF3 Ti200 (Oc'd) Softquadro'd to a DCC. I have the opportunity to get a GF4 Ti4600 for $160, but I don't know how much Softquadro4 will benefit Maya.

    I am also considering buying a Radeon 9700 (and ocing it) and modding it to FireGL. This card would be my choice for games, but honestly 3D work is more important (hardly have time to play games.) I'm using Maya a LOT lately, so I want to use the right card.

    Thanks for any help out there!

    Augie
     
  2. augie

    augie Active Member

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    bump
     
  3. mattu

    mattu Guest

    right now, as sad as it is (and absolutly a driver prob if we look at game benchmarks) every quadro derived from a ti model is faster than the X1 ,(( we just got our new workstation at work with a x1 and its very slow compared to the quadro's we have. i just bought a 9700 for gaming and modelling and its graet if you do both, but if you use it only for modelling etc. i would go with a nice ti 4600 (no 4800 as its not supported in softquadro as far as i know [right unwinder ?]).
    ok, have fun

    mattu
     
  4. augie

    augie Active Member

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    Hi,

    Thank you for your reply! You don't know how relieved this made me feel... I just got home with a new (used) TI4600 card -- traded a 120GB HD + $25 for it. Sounds like I made the right choice. :)

    You're using Maya at work, correct? Because apparantly Max 5 runs just as well with a TI4600 (stock) or a Quadro 4. I've heard Maya was a different story, but I couldn't find any info on it.

    I remember reading Tom's Hardware article about the new FireGL drivers and they supposedly made a big difference. But Tom's comparisons used _real_ Quadro4's while I wanted a SoftQuadro Quadro4.

    The gaming performance of the Radeon was tempting, but honestly my GF3 runs games as fast as I need anyway at a nice high resolution. (I was even playing MOHAA in 1600x1200 with 8x antialiasing, etc and it was smooth.) I only have a 17" monitor so I don't need higher than 1024x768 anyway.

    Augie
     

  5. Behemoth

    Behemoth Guest

    Hey Mattu, have you experienced any glitchy with 9700 pro in maya 4.5? I am really tempted to buy a 9700 pro. I just want a card that can play both games and maya great. Image quality and stability is most important to me, speed loss by not going softgl is acceptable.
    Any comment would be appreciated. :D
     
  6. mattu

    mattu Guest

    hiho,

    all glichtes are gone with the 28/30 driver series. working flawless here with everything i tried ,)
    @augie, try to use the maxtreme drivers for max (located somewhere on the nvidia side) that should give a great performance boost.
    cya
     
  7. Behemoth

    Behemoth Guest

    wow, great news, time to upgrade, time to give ati another try, i have had a bad experience with ati once tho :D
     
  8. augie

    augie Active Member

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    Hi,

    I had been using a softquadro'd GF3->Quadro DCC, so I already have the Maxtremes installed. But I must say, I wasn't expecting that big a performance improvement of this 4600 over the DCC (looking at benchmarks on Digitlife, etc.) I am BLOWN AWAY at the speed boost!!! It's absolutely nuts!

    I ran the Specview 3DSMax benchmark (just started it -- too impatient to let it finish) and it went from slideshow to perfectly viewable (probably 3fps -> 15 or something). And Maya's numbers were equally impressive -- 2-2.5x performance boost! The SoftQuadro mod made a big performance boost in Maya over the GF4 stock too -- Went from 15 fps in solid shade mode to 25.2fps (other modes similar).

    It's too bad the X1 isn't faster than it is -- I would have loved to have that awesome Anisotropic filtering for gaming. BTW, is it true that a lot of games won't run on the X1? If so, that would mean you'd have to leave your 9700pro in regular mode.

    Thanks again for your help!

    Augie
     
  9. mattu

    mattu Guest

    stop saying thanx :D
    as far as i know all games run with the x1, at leat 3dmark does ,)) as far as it concerns me i'm an id software fanatic (quake, wolfenstein etc.) so i only need good opengl drivers and my benchmarks in wolfenstein were a little slower than in 9700 mode ... so right now i'm using the standard catalyst drivers cause i only need the opengl stereo extensions of the X1 and i have a real X1 at work and a quadro notebook, so i don't need to patch here at home ,) and my system here is kind of unstable so i stay with unpatched drivers to get i stable.....
    greets

    mattu
     
  10. skelter

    skelter Guest

    Hi Augie!

    SoftQuadro4 doesnt support Overlay planes, SoftFGL does.
    Maya does intensive use of it.
     

  11. augie

    augie Active Member

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    Hi,

    From what I'm able to gather on the web, this has to do with drawing windows over the geometry window? I suppose the more windows you have open the more this would matter.

    Augie
     
  12. augie

    augie Active Member

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    I suppose one way I could find out would be to buy a Radeon 9700 Pro at Circuit City, try it out, then return it -- but it from somewhere cheaper if it turns out good.

    Mattu -- the workstations you were using were softquadro'd GF4's and not true Quadros? (When you compared quadro vs X1).

    Augie
     
  13. skelter

    skelter Guest

    The Overlays plane are required to display some tools over Maya wiewports.

    The drawing of windows such as outliner, hypershade uses another openGl stuff.

    Overlays are in use in Artisan based tools(scult surface Tools, etc..), trim tool etc, Nurbs texture placement, paint Fx...

    when overlays are on the time slider in graph editor is red.
     
  14. Samiam

    Samiam Member Guru

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    Isn't one of the main features of SQ4 that it enables Overlays?

    I believe SQ4 DOES enable overlays for maya.
     
  15. skelter

    skelter Guest

    SoftQuadro doesnt support Overlay planes.

    When this feature is enabled with any softquadroed geforces, Maya runs slower(frame rate is divided by two).

    Overlays are in use but are computed by the main cpu not by the gfx board, which is the case on the real Quadro 4.
     

  16. Samiam

    Samiam Member Guru

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    Do you have some proof of that from the docs? According to what I've the overlay optoin is enabled in SQ4, and furthermore this is not one of the features cut from the GF4 chip.

    Unless you have some proof...
     
  17. skelter

    skelter Guest

    The only proof i've it that the card runs slower with the overlays enabled.
     
  18. Samiam

    Samiam Member Guru

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    ok so it sounds like conjecture. From what I've read SQ4 does support overlays just as much as a Quadro.
     
  19. skelter

    skelter Guest

    If you've read it so truth but just explain to me why SoftQuadros are f*cking running 50% slower with the Overlays on?.

    regards
     
  20. augie

    augie Active Member

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    I have also heard it stated elsewhere that softquadros don't support hardware overlays. (Other forums). They don't support hardware lines either -- this was not supported in the consumer chips after Geforce 2.

    I do remember when the GF4's came out that sites were saying that Nvidia made the cores different enough from the quadros that people wouldn't be able to make effective conversions. While there are apparantly some hardware differences, the softquadro still gets a whopping performance boost over the stock TI4600.

    Augie
     

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