Softmod doesn't stick?

Discussion in 'RivaTuner Advanced Discussion forum' started by IceMole, Nov 2, 2004.

  1. StriderGT

    StriderGT Member

    Messages:
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    GPU:
    Gainward 6800LE
    Observations:

    Observations:

    1. To actually force an OC frequency on a DEFECTIVE Quad you need to EnablePerfLevelForcing (Nvidia\Overclocking) because each time you run a 3D application that requires a higher performance level (eg Doom3) a stress test occurs lowering your performance level automatically. Another alternative is to set all three performance levels at the same OCed frequency during startup but it achieves the same thing with much more settings…

    2. Doom3 was much more “defective quad tolerant” than any of the 3D mark 2003 game tests (all of them freezed for some secs 12P6V,core@375Mhz) whereas Doom3 with the same settings could complete several timedemos (42,1 fps windowed 800x600, high quality, 8xAA, v-sync off, RT hardware monitor running) without any problems. I also played Doom3 for 3-4hours continuously (12P6V,core@350Mhz, full screen 1024x768, high quality, noAA, vsync off) with no –at least to me- visible artifacts or any slowdown problems… So my opinion is that enabling a defective quad is feasible provided that it plays your particular game right… You should keep an eye for small freezes, definite sign of instability/overheating!

    3. RivaTuner 15.2 shows no voltage increase or decrease between the different performance levels: 1,1 Volt constantly@autoselect:1,1V+0,1V/0.3V loop. I used the other bit interpretation methods with the same result no volt inc/dec between the different performance levels regardless of OCing or not… Is this true for 6800LE or is it an RT 15.2 misreport due to new pin assignment/combinations in the new bunch of cards?

    PS. A stress test also occurs -switching between all the perf levels- each time you run the cmd line that is why the computer freezes for some secs if you have a defective QUAD…
     
  2. StriderGT

    StriderGT Member

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    GPU:
    Gainward 6800LE
    RobustChannels error Default P,V@384Mhz core
    Event ID 105 would be displayed by nv regardless of RmLogonRC enabled, I assume its the driver trying to lower Perf Level to regain stability,
    so it is Event ID:6 that hurts my OCing (running Doom3 timedemo), anyone knows anything about it?

    Event Type: Error
    Event Source: nv
    Event Category: None
    Event ID: 105
    Date: 15/12/2004
    Time: 7:28:42 ìì
    User: N/A
    Computer: STRIDER-MACHINE
    Description:
    Silent Running: level transition due to Robust Channel error: L1 -> L0
    Data:
    0000: 00 00 00 00 02 00 4e 00 ......N.
    0008: 00 00 00 00 69 00 aa c0 ....i.ªÀ
    0010: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
    0018: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
    0020: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........

    Event ID: 6
    Time: 7:28:42 ìì
    Description:
    Parse Error on PE0003 18c0 00000000 0069f5d8 00000000 00000000
    Data:
    0000: 00 00 00 00 02 00 4e 00 ......N.
    0008: 00 00 00 00 06 00 aa c0 ......ªÀ

    Event ID: 105
    Time: 7:28:42 ìì
    Description:
    Silent Running: level transition due to Robust Channel error: L0 -> L0
    Data:
    0000: 00 00 00 00 02 00 4e 00 ......N.
    0008: 00 00 00 00 69 00 aa c0 ....i.ªÀ

    Event ID: 6
    Time: 7:28:42 ìì
    Description:
    Parse Error on PE0003 180c 00510007 00000000 00000000 00000000
    Data:
    0000: 00 00 00 00 02 00 4e 00 ......N.
    0008: 00 00 00 00 06 00 aa c0 ......ªÀ

    Event ID: 6
    Time: 7:28:42 ìì
    Description:
    Parse Error on PE0003 180c 00510007 00000000 00000000 00000000
    Data:
    0000: 00 00 00 00 02 00 4e 00 ......N.
    0008: 00 00 00 00 06 00 aa c0 ......ªÀ

    PS. All the missing lines from the event log are the same as those ones in the first event

    UPDATE: 12P6V@378Mhz core
    Same situation Doom3 timedemo freezing/slowing due to OC instability but with the defective quad enabled this time.

    Event ID: 105
    Time: 2:18:48 ðì
    Description:
    Silent Running: level transition due to Robust Channel error: L2 -> L1
    Data:
    0000: 00 00 00 00 02 00 4e 00 ......N.
    0008: 00 00 00 00 69 00 aa c0 ....i.ªÀ

    Event ID: 6
    Time: 2:18:48 ðì
    Description:
    Parse Error on PE0003 180c 007d007f 0061c7b4 00000000 000000d4
    Data:
    0000: 00 00 00 00 02 00 4e 00 ......N.
    0008: 00 00 00 00 06 00 aa c0 ......ªÀ
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2004
  3. Unwinder

    Unwinder Moderator Staff Member

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    Re: Observations:

    It must be so, constant core voltage in 2D/3D is by design feature of the most NV4x based boards. Just peek in "VGA BIOS info" in RivaTuner's diagnostic report. You'll see that your VGA BIOS contains only _one_ programmed performance level with 1.1V voltage. When initializing params of 2D/3D performance levels, the driver uses this info and distirbutes performance levels' params between all levels if too few levels are specified in VGA BIOS. Due to that reason you have similar 2D/3D clocks by default, and similar 2D/3D voltages.
     
  4. Unwinder

    Unwinder Moderator Staff Member

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    Re: Observations:

    There is not stress testing when you run that command line. GPU may hang due to different reasons, explained above.
     

  5. KingZer0

    KingZer0 Guest

    Hi

    i wonder about the hysteria here a little cause:

    even if your le runs @ 3 quads flawlessly u lag 400mpix behind the nv43 and therefor u need oc to achieve equivalent fillrate
    unwinder did a great job but even rc15.3 wouldnt be able to repair defective pipes and if u catch an le it needs to be able to get kicked @ 4quads to be a price/performance competitor for the nv43
    i have grave concerns if 2 reactivated quads work without any probs.

    ok u have a 256bit mem intf. but i think @ 3quads it isnt able to compete against

    what do u think?
     
  6. StriderGT

    StriderGT Member

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    GPU:
    Gainward 6800LE
    If you do not tweak your card, yes NV43 is a good solution. If you do tweak though, 6800LE is by far the better choice: I can increase my fillrate in multiple ways, both by OCing and by Quad manipulation, while having the neccessary mem bandwith. 6600GT is always going to be mem bandwidth limited => forget high res and AA/AF in state of the art games. More info and some other interesting details on the subject can be found here (the article is a bit technical):

    Quote from Digit-Life article:

    "But the fact remains. 6800 GT (350/250) based on NV40, which is absolutely identical in memory bandwidth and the number of pipelines, performs much better than 6600 GT (350/500) based on NV43 in case of small number of textures (and, consequently, maximum writing load on the frame buffer). That is 6600 processes 8 pixels per clock, but writes to the frame buffer only 4(!) per clock. And while the pixel shader processes the following values, it writes the remaining 4 pixels. This may mislead somebody to think that NV43 has 4 pipelines but 8 texture units. This is wrong. Actually, this measure is quite reasonable, because shaders work minimum with two commands."
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2004
  7. StriderGT

    StriderGT Member

    Messages:
    16
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    GPU:
    Gainward 6800LE
    Re: Re: Observations:

    You are right this is what triggers the slight freeze/error when I run the cmd line:

    Event ID: 9
    Description:
    The device, \Device\VideoPdo0, did not respond within the timeout period.

    For more information, see Help and Support Center at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.

    Then robust channel tries to change level

    Event ID: 105
    Description:
    Silent Running: level transition due to Robust Channel error: L2 -> L1

    And finally this one:

    Event ID: 8
    Description:
    Idle Timeout Error Channel 00000000
     
  8. wulfgar

    wulfgar New Member

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    GPU:
    ATI X1900XT
    i have a "unmoddable" aopen 6800le, which can be modded with the params mentioned earlier in this thread.

    if i unlock all pipes, i get some flickering in some games. parts of the ui starts to flicker, looks as if they got blured. with only 12 pipes there are no visual artifacts.

    3dmark03 runs without any artifacts, except the 3dmark 2003 text on loading screens looks as if its interlaced.

    is there a chance that this is caused of the on-the-fly mod or is this pipe definitely damaged? (i have little hope ;))
     
  9. AlecRyben

    AlecRyben Ancient Guru

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    GPU:
    5x580 2x590 2x780Ti 1x970
    Nope, your pipes are definitely bad. Sorry.
     
  10. StealthBomber

    StealthBomber Member Guru

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    GPU:
    Fully modded X1950GT
    Not always true, those 6800LE/NU cards are undervolted by default @1.1v/1.2v (since they are running with fewer pipelines by default), the card normally requires 1.2v to run with 12 pipelines and at least 1.3v to provide enough power to run with all 16x1:6 pipelines enabled.

    My card would only clock to around 350MHz on the GPU fully unlocked @1.3v, upping the GPU core to 1.4v gained a GPU clock of around 410MHz max glitch free.

    If the pipelines don't work @1.3v even at the lower 300-350MHz range then increasing the voltage is unlikely to do anything since the pipelines will certainly be defective.
     

  11. AlecRyben

    AlecRyben Ancient Guru

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    GPU:
    5x580 2x590 2x780Ti 1x970
    Since there are a lot of "accidental" burnout reports due to overvoltages, i would stay away from reccomending any voltmods -> that's one of the main reasons why Unwinder doesn't want to add any voltage tweaking to RivaTuner - it's simply too risky because most of the newbies here always seem to blame someone else for their stupid mistakes... :(
     
  12. Unwinder

    Unwinder Moderator Staff Member

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    No chances, sorry. On-the-fly mod can cause GPU hang, but not rendering artifacts. You pipes seem to be damaged.
     
  13. TwinX

    TwinX Guest

    Van it damage the card to work @ 1.4v?
     
  14. Subtestube

    Subtestube Member Guru

    Messages:
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    GPU:
    Gigabyte GV-N68128DH 6800 NU
    TwinX >> Yes. Almost definitely. Look around Graphics forums and I can almost guarantee you'll find some stories of people's cards burning out. In a number of these cases the people were running the cards at a higher voltage than spec.

    Stealthbomber >> Sort of the case. In cases where the pipes are really not defective, running at the default voltage shouldn't cause probs. I can run at 16x1 6vp under stock voltage without problems. Additionally, there's no instability - I can still use overclocking controls without failing core test (though I don't - I'm a very cautious person with expensive hardware). It has been the case that voltmodding has helped some people here, but I'd wager their pipes are actually defective, and some other side effect of the voltmod is 'covering for the problem'.
     
  15. StealthBomber

    StealthBomber Member Guru

    Messages:
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    GPU:
    Fully modded X1950GT
    You have to be very lucky to receive a card that does 16x1:6 at 1.2v glitch free, many GT's couldn't run stable when undervolted, some can, it depends on the quality of the core you receive, but the specified voltage for full pipeline operation is 1.3v.

    The GPU cores that are able to run at lower than default voltages are usually handpicked for the Ultra cards as they are the cream of the crop and overclocking potential is always better with these select samples. :)
     

  16. StriderGT

    StriderGT Member

    Messages:
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    GPU:
    Gainward 6800LE


    1.4Volt is WITHIN spec (it is the operating voltage of 6800Ultras). It is overheating that burns the cards not the voltage. You should keep the card temps within operational margin at all times, which means under heavy load (games, 3d, benches, etc), for long periods (heat builds up) and under worst case scenario ambient temperatures (summer, heaters nearby etc)... So use a better cooling solution than the stock, which was intended for lower operational scenarios, and monitor your temps/behaviour of the card -at least for an initial period-. Its not nuclear science after all!!! BTW 1.4V is overkill for a 6800LE if you do not enable quads or do not heavy OC.

    My quad is defective even @1.4V but I haven't found yet a real application or benchmark that exhibits some sort of defect! Uping my voltage enables me to OC higher, the same way I would with 8pipes enabled but at lower frequency range (350-375@12P vs 370-400@8P). So until the elusive bug actually manifests I will enjoy my uped frames :) even if nvidia disqualifies me with its stress test... (hope its a video accelaration feature that fails - yes they've used some die space in the pipes for that stuff and it does not work anyway... very low propability though)
     
  17. solo_icomp

    solo_icomp Member

    Messages:
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    GPU:
    CLUB3D 7800GS @ 490/1410
    UPDATE: ok sorry; ) i read all thread now and this question is not necessary.


    ANyway - why this small /wr write scripts to bios (/rr cant hang anything) can "damage" graphics card ? You (means Under) just mean, that it can hang GPU and if GPU Reset wont work, the card will be dead right ? Or this GPU Reset always work ? [ mean 99,99999% ]. Coz , well, i didnt read all stuff before, have unlocked my 6800NU Leadtek like 20 times and GPU Reset works all time.

    My computer is running 24/7 so i dont need to do it again, just was testing before.

    [ DELETED QUESTION ]
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2004
  18. solo_icomp

    solo_icomp Member

    Messages:
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    GPU:
    CLUB3D 7800GS @ 490/1410
    You would have >10.000 points if Ya got faster CPU and better motherboard chipset (well its isnt necessary, most important is processor).

    On my sempron 2600+ i got 10.154 pkt, and on 2600@3200 i got like 10634.
     
  19. Subtestube

    Subtestube Member Guru

    Messages:
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    GPU:
    Gigabyte GV-N68128DH 6800 NU
    Strider: Maybe so, but I've seen at least 3 accounts of people who had cards that never went above 65 degrees, but that died whilst voltmodded to 1.4v. Don't shoot the messenger, man. Almost everyone I've seen who voltmods doesn't let their cards get that hot. I'm sure that at least one of the burnouts I've seen had an NV5 on their card. This is not just a cooling problem.

    Edit: Oh, and one more thing. While 1.4v is the operating voltage of the 6800Us, it's not the operating voltage of the 6800NUs. They do still bin GPUs y'know. It's not just random. Again, I'm aware that all NV40s are fundamentally the same chip (just with more or less defects), but maybe... just maybe, nVidia know a bit more about this than we do.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2004
  20. bad english noob mode /enabled

    first, THX to unwinder(also for the "crazy driving" support work with noobs like me) ur the man -> 16/6 on my asus 6800le/td!! what did nvidia do to u, except taking 600€ for a good gaphic card? ;) ...a little more and people would kill each other for one :D

    16/6 is the good news, 320/740 the bad.
    WHY??
    its a 100% identical hardware to the asus gt/td with hynix 2,2ns!!
    i heard about a guy in a forum(same card,same problem) who volt modded first - with no real performance increase, then flashed to asus 6800gt/td 128 with this effect -> 410/950 whats is impressive, but more realistic than 320/740! am i right?
    is there some other kind of lock or different parameters except pipes and volt?
    is there some kind of solution already planed for the 15.3 or do i have to use the risky bios flash method? will changing the hardware identification settings to costum/6800gt take effekt?
     

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