So this 4:4:4 problem in a nutshell (HDMI)

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by Mda400, Mar 13, 2013.

  1. Mda400

    Mda400 Master Guru

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    Last night, i got curious and did the EDIDOverride trick to enable 4:4:4 for shets and gaggles of course it works, but with no audio (I have an LG HDMI Blu-ray combo Receiver).

    So I have an LG 32LD450 which is an affordable 32" 2010 1080p TV by LG. Also is known as a series from LG that can do 4:4:4 chroma for use with a PC display. You enable this "support" by renaming the HDMI 1 (labeled HDMI/DVI 1 with DVI being the hint) to "PC".

    Now this acts as just a "window". It doesn't "create" the 4:4:4 sampling that i thought my PC was already doing fine. My GTX 480 is hooked by the mini-HDMI 1.3 cable that came with the card and i have it set to RGB in the NVCP.

    Of course, this does nothing and still the TV thinks the PC is a TV device and goes "OH HEY PSee... i mean TV 4:2:2 source!..." then downgrades the output to 4:2:2. With the EDID override trick, you basically are permanently telling your graphics card that the display is a "monitor" and not a TV. Making a custom resolution under PC doesn't work either.

    Now what I THINK is the whole issue with getting 4:4:4 support and audio over an HDMI to HDMI cable (Not DVI/HDMI to HDMI that tricks the display) is that a TV that supports 24hz as a refresh rate (24hz is commonly used in cinematography where 4:2:0/4:2:2 is prominent) will convert all other refresh rates down to 4:2:2 if the GPU reads the 24hz capable TV. With HDMI Extensions, some manufacturers have different ways of structuring their display EDIDs. So those who have the very few LG, Samsung, or Sony displays that support 4:4:4 + audio over HDMI have displays that those manufacturers acknowledged this little flaw.

    Knowledged Geforce owners of this problem have told other answer-seeking Geforce owners to submit a hardware bug report to Nvidia about this. This is where I don't think its Nvidia's fault. It's basically the standards that are layed down and how EDIDs vary from display to display. HDMI without a DVI adapter can natively do Full chroma RGB or YCbCr.

    So that is my assumption and it sucks if its true, but the REAL question I want to know is that if i go get a DVI/HDMI-HDMI CABLE or DVI/HDMI CONVERTER (with seperate HDMI cable) Does the GTX 400 series and up (since audio is carried over PCI-E and not S/PDIF now) provide LPCM 5.1 over a DVI connector on the card that the Mini-HDMI could?

    The NVCP has 3 different fields for Digital Audio (DVI, DVI, HDMI since those are the connections on my card). Currently it says LG-BDHT in the HDMI field since i am hooked to my HDMI receiver with my GPU's Mini-HDMI connection. Again, this does NOT provide the 4:4:4 support that my TV CAN do. This is why i need to go DVI/HDMI and know if LPCM 5.1 is supported over those DVI ports.

    THANKS FOR READING THE LOOOOOOONG POST! :bang::banana:
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2013
  2. JJayzX

    JJayzX Master Guru

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    DVI is HDMI minus sound, so unless you can still connect the HDMI cable to get sound you might be out of luck.
     
  3. maco07

    maco07 Active Member

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    Not always. I used a DVI-HDMI cable in the past and sound works perfect.

    MDA400: I had a LG 42LW4500 and have same problem than you. Edid solution was the only way of fixing it, but you loss sound on HDMI.
     
  4. JaylumX

    JaylumX Master Guru

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    Create a custom resolution in the NVCP and make it 1mhz higher - e.g 1920x1080@61hz. That will force the correct colours as well as keep your audio
     

  5. maco07

    maco07 Active Member

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    it works if you create a custom resolution of 0.001 Hz, eg 1920x1080@60.001Hz

    Using 61Hz can cause some tearing.
     
  6. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    Yeah Dual link DVI ports on gfx cards carry digital audio if used for HDMI.
    The DVI to HDMI leads you buy these days should link the audio connections, but you can buy older ones that dont, fyi.
     
  7. maco07

    maco07 Active Member

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    you are right
     
  8. Some Dillweed

    Some Dillweed Member

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    This doesn't necessarily fix the 4:4:4 chroma issues though, as it didn't for me. The only way to enable that was to use my DVI-HDMI cable and do an EDID override (like Mda400 did), by adding the required lines to nv_disp.inf so that the card treats the display as a DVI full RGB monitor instead of an HDMI display, which of course disables the audio signal. I have yet to find a workaround to allow both 4:4:4 and HDMI audio, besides just using your mobo/soundcard audio, which is what I already do.
     
  9. Prophet

    Prophet Master Guru

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    How to do the edid trick?
     
  10. Some Dillweed

    Some Dillweed Member

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  11. Prophet

    Prophet Master Guru

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    So it should look ilke this? [​IMG]

    I dont know if its actually working, I still got sound.
     
  12. Some Dillweed

    Some Dillweed Member

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    Are you using a DVI-HDMI cable? I'm pretty sure using a DVI port on the card's the only way to get it to work. If it's working correctly, it would say "DVI - PC Display" for the connector on the "Change Resolution" screen, and wouldn't give you color options in the desktop color settings. Like this:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  13. Prophet

    Prophet Master Guru

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    Aha ok no. Hdmi only. Thanks for your time mat.e
     
  14. Mda400

    Mda400 Master Guru

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    So I got that DVI/HDMI adapter and I do get full surround sound to my receiver, but the pixel format is still 4:2:2. So I am stumped. I tried to disable audio and just use the DVI/HDMI adapter as a video connection but it still sees it as HDMI and not DVI.

    How the HELL am I suppose to get 4:4:4 from my card without using VGA or the EDID override? Its SUPPOSE to give me 4:4:4 if use the PC label for my HDMI 1 input and use a HDMI/DVI connection which are essentially the same thing, but I've done it with native HDMi and DVi/HDMI adapter connections and the red text is STILL f***in blurry. This also happens with an HDMI laptop with an amd gpu in it. I select 4:4:4 Full RGB PC Standard and my TV displays it as 4:2:2. It works over VGA. Why not HDMI/DVI?
     
  15. Some Dillweed

    Some Dillweed Member

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    If you check the 4:4:4 thread on AVS Forum, it seems like it's an issue with the way the TVs handle the signals. From the list of TVs that have been tested by people there, you apparently can't get both 4:4:4 chroma and an audio signal at the same time on the LG TVs, and only one Samsung and a couple of Sony models are listed as being able to pass 4:4:4 and audio together over HDMI-HDMI.
     

  16. Xtreme512

    Xtreme512 Master Guru

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    how to check if its gives the best color blacks or 4-4-4 dont know what it is ? :D :D

    by the way Im using DVI-DVI Digital Dual Link cable.
     
  17. Mda400

    Mda400 Master Guru

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    alright looks like im using a DVI/VGA adapter to get 4:4:4 over VGA and then using the mini-HDMI to HDMI cable for sound. Thanks for the input guys.
     
  18. maco07

    maco07 Active Member

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  19. Some Dillweed

    Some Dillweed Member

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    Full RGB and 4:4:4 chroma are different things. The workarounds to simply enable Full RGB on Nvidia cards don't necessarily enable 4:4:4. A lot of people need to use DVI-HDMI cables, and others (like Mda400 and I) need to go a step further and use an EDID override to disable the audio signal sent with the video and have the TV read as a DVI-connected display.
     
  20. Mda400

    Mda400 Master Guru

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    I wish I could use the EDID override trick, but there are two things stopping me.
    First, I NEED sound over HDMI because I sold my soundcard that could output a 5.1 (Dolby digital live) signal to my receiver (which also takes CPU cycles to encode) so I have no way of getting sound from my PC other than HDMI.

    Second, that EDID override trick causes my TV to incorrectly map the 0-255 full rgb levels being outputted by my PC. The black level setting on my TV causes washout on HIGH even with full range rgb (which is used when you have a device capable of outputting 0-255 and reduces input delay IMMENSELY) and on LOW, the contrast is severely crushed and forces me to correct it with my graphics cards color controls ( which when using a TV you should never have to use).
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2013

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