Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon Drivers Section' started by AvengerUK, Dec 7, 2011.
Open up task manager, click processes --> view --> select columns, and then check mark Threads.
Then go find TESV.exe and look at how many threads it is using. When you actually start playing the game, it stays at 27.
That doesnt really mean much.
Process explorer uses 6 "threads", and it is deff not multi threaded
Even on a single core cpu, applications use muliple threads, but they are multiplexed vs running simulantiously.
You really need to analyze the context switching to determine whats multiplexed, and whats asynchonus...
Basically, in order for threads to run asynchonusouly, they must be specifically programmed to make specific systems calls to the kernal stack.
otherwise, the OS just tried to divie up the workload among the availaable cores where it can, which is why you are seeing an even load. They arent all running simultaniously though, allot of them are time-sliced.
That may be part of it, but doesn't explain why at night in the cities my fps drops even though my GPU usage is only in the 40% range and my CPU usage is not even in the 30% range.
No single CPU core even gets to 50% usage.. more like 35% max.
based on that reply good bye ATI, if they think that they have resolved the prob they are obviously deluding themselves and that means that we will get no more fixes for it, it sounded like a polite way of saying p1ss off.
gtx 580 here we come !
How do you know process explorer isn't multithreaded?
The OS can't arbitrarily break up a single thread and create extra threads to help split up the work.
Any program that runs more than one thread has to be programmed to start up those threads.
I never said that they are all doing something at the same time.. but they are seperate threads.
You misunderstand what a "multi-threaded" application is.
We are talking about asynchonus multi-threading. As in simultanious execution.
Unless an application is specificlly coded to execute its threads siumltaniously, they are multiplexed (ie time sliced)
It can still have multiple threads, they just arent execuded simultaniously. Those time-sliced threads can still be divied up to other cores, they just arent executed in paralel.
If you arent talking about paralell execution, then youve missed the point.
When people talk about multi-threaded applications, they are NOT talking about multiplexing. There is zero execution efficienencies gained from multiplexing. Only paralell execution gains those advantages.
When Bethesda says its only optimized for 2 cores, it means it only makes calls to the kernal stack 2 cores deep for paralell execution.
It has nothing to do with multiplexing/individual threads.
this why the game is CPU bound, as its only executing 2 sets of threads simultaniously, so optimally (which it never is, but for illustrative purposes), 13 threads on core 1, and 13 threads on core 2...then a subset of each 13 being divied up to the remaining two cores for multiplexing...The subsets dont execute any faster after being divied up then they would if they stayed with the original 2 cores, it just evens out the work flow to keep the power draw of the cpu down.
add to that the latency created from passing rendering info back and forth from the GPU, and this is the reason why you can only be using 30% of you total cpu power, and still be CPU constrained.
The only way to make it faster it is to OC the holy hell out the CPU and make it process those 2 sets of threads faster or to replace your CPU with one that has more efficient cores...
this long winded explaination aside, it really boils down to a ****ty console port from bethesda who was too lazy to optimize for 4 cores because 2 is good enough...Had they optimized for 4 cores, Skyrim would scream and you would see close to 100% usage on your quad.
DW I know you werent bashing
Ive actually borrowed a 1080p screen from next door for the hell of it, while skyrim is still broken (GPU usage is actually lower than before >.>) - the combination of a new screen + this rez is indeed very nice
Anyway, guess I'll have to hold out hope that its fixed sometime. Proberbly Just going to disable crossfire for now though!
In that case, it was programmed very poorly and they need to patch it.
As for multithreading vs multiplexing, they are both technically multithreading as they have more than one thread running in a single process, one is just synchronous and the other asynchronous.
you got it....crappy choices from bethesda...a patch wont fix core optimization...only a re-write will...Programs need to be fundemenatally created with MT in mind, you cant just tack it on at the end....
perhaps if they made the nessisary changes and completely recompiled the game, they might be able to, but that would take allot of hours of coding....There is allot of thread planning and execution order involved.
technically, yes..they are both multi-threading, but when people talk about multi-threaded (read: MT) they are ONLY referring to paralell execution.
multiplexing has no benefits speedwise, so no one cares...
FNV was perfectly multithreaded as far as I remember.
(Glorious 100+ FPS on a 5970 4GB card with every HD/HR mod and setting triple max.)
CrossfireX with cat 11.11c + 11.11cap3 + dxtory locked at 59Hz and "MonochromeWench" 4GB aware fix = perfectly smooth FPS 24/7, if your hardware and settings match (ultra everything but with shadows on high specularity fade on 15),
(+ it doesnt seem bug'ed with skiped refreshs of the player characters spell changes ect, needs further testing)
dxtory will autodetect any programs process that runs in the background (behind skyrim) and will auto create a profile for that process, so if the game starts stuttering again when your playing, quit out and set the auto generated profile for that process to ignore, I had to do it with my g13's LCORE.EXE
(dxtory's edit button where you can ignore process's is at the top of the app to the right of the drop down "profiles" box)
also to OP 11.11b and 11.11c do enable crossfireX and scaling is fine, the 11.11's and http://forums.guru3d.com/showpost.php?p=4157665&postcount=17 caused crossfire to function but the 11.11b/c scale better though
the drivers seems to be more sympathethic where lag is concerned while using the ultra pre set when the games launcher is set to antialiasing x4 (for me atleast)
overclocking core/mem seems to cause nasty instability in terms of smoothness (ultra again, pushing it)
shader unlocking seems to have very little effect on performance (may even be 5% more laggy)
I can get 90%+ GPU utilization with funky AA settings and pretty solid FPS, but once I take some of the load off of the CPU it seems the game starts hitching, without regard to FPS or settings. MSAA+MLAA+CFAA through drivers is pretty much no performance hit while Skyrim's AA (No impact with FXAA) is 30-50%.
Also, some things for Skyrim.ini itself, this is on you to test for your system, if you break anything, set your house on fire, or rip spacetime while dividing by zero it's not my problem:
Ok just to set the record strait, i uninstalled skyrim, deleted the ini files and deleted the skyrim folder from steam/steam apps/common, i then uninstalled 11.11c restarted in safe mode, ran driver sweeper, restarted in safe mode, ran pc tools reg cleaner, restart normally, installed 11.11c, restart then installed skyrim (and updated) i then ran o&o defrag, restarted, ran pc tools reg cleaner again, then restarted, i've got no mods installed and i'm not using 4gb patch and have not touched ini, and guess what ? .........................................................................................................................im still getting flickering.
(that includes starting a new game as well !) and ive tried running game in low settings with no AA or AF, hhmmp! still flickers.
flickering problem is definitely is not mod or ini related. <AMD please read this<
Skyrim can only use 2GB of system ram and 2 CPU Cores/Treads and knowing this, people
still compain and expects AMD to make good use of their dual GPU solutions? Sigh..
dude, it might took long time to those works,i admire your patience and endurance.
Does it flicker in Windowed Mode?
If it doesn't, it's HDR/Shadow + Crossfire related.
I don't think there is even a way to disable HDR entirely(I've tried), but you can shadows.
theres a 3rd party patch for that,,,
If you are thinking of the 4GB patch then Yes It stops the game from crashing to desktop, but not much else exept maybe better performance when running custom high res textures?
So someone should probobly make a patch to make better use of multiple gpu setups.
How are things in the Nvidia camp? Does the folks with 2x 580 etc get good scaling in towns, and are at all times experiencing framerates that are never usually down on such extreme lows as 30 FPS etc ? (towns)
I have seen so many complains and rants about AMD drivers and skyrim performance on dual gpu setups, but how they not understand that this is only bethesdas fault for still using the exact same peice of crap engine from before 2006 where not much flexibility is really considered regarding such systems(yes they promised something new and groundbreaking but they lied) is beyond me.