Should I Turn On V-Sync With Freesync..?

Discussion in 'Computer Monitor Forum' started by zeebaluch, Oct 23, 2017.

  1. zeebaluch

    zeebaluch Member Guru

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    Hello, I just bought Asus MX34VQ paired with Vega 64, should I leave V-Sync enable with Freesync or should I disable it? It's simple question but didn't get good answer. Pls help
     
  2. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    The same advice as with g-sync should apply here. Meaning:

    In-game vsync: OFF
    Driver control panel vsync: ON
    Cap your frame rate to stay below the upper end of the freesync range, using an in-game limiter or (if the game doesn't have one) using RTSS. Do not use the driver control panel limiter, it has input lag.

    Your monitor seems to have a freesync range of 48 - 100Hz. That means that capping your frame rate to 97FPS should prevent vsync input lag from kicking in.
     
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  3. Chastity

    Chastity Ancient Guru

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    FreeSync does not suffer the same quirks as GSync, and you should NOT follow the same advice.

    AMD has already put out advice on a proper setup, and describe how FreeSync and VSync were meant to be both enabled. And no, you don't need to cap the max FPS for smooth, tear-free gaming.

    Just enable VSync in game, and enable FreeSync on your monitor and Radeon Settings. You can use CRU to experiment with extending the low end of the FreeSync range. As long as framerates are within the FreeSync range, you will have a low latency and smooth tear-free experience. If it dips lower, it reverts to VSync to maintain no tearing. When at maxfps, it uses VSync, but since you are at maxfps, there is no input lag, since the framerate is in sync with the buffers.
     
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  4. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    Just want to point out that the above post by Chastity is wrong and you should not follow that advice.

    Cap your frame rate, or else you are going to get vsync behavior. It is the same as with g-sync.

    Also, there are no "quirks." If your game sends more frames than the monitor can display, you get vsync and thus increased input lag. Has nothing to do with any imaginary "quirks", it's how things work. Freesync does not have any magic pixie dust powers that would somehow magically prevent that from happening.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2017
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  5. Chastity

    Chastity Ancient Guru

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    @RealNC: As a NVIDIA user, just how much experience do you have on AMD FreeSync?

    And you don't call having to "shut off vsync in game", using a game profile override to enforce Vsync, and using a frame limiter to maxfps-3 to ensure a stutter-free Adaptive Sync experience to be not quirky? The solution you provide is correct for configuring a GSync setup effectively, but is not ideal for a FreeSync setup.

    I don't have to do ANY of that and my FreeSync experience is a flat-out wonderful joy. Please get your facts straight before telling someone they are wrong.

    And in case you missed this, here's the thread from AMD_Robert on the subject (You will note that he specifically says NOT to use any sort of frame capping):

     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2017
  6. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    I already posted to not use the driver's frame limiter (FRTC). Use RTSS or the in-game limiter.

    My experience with Freesync is with an AOC G2770pf back in early 2016. Unless something changed since then, a quick test on a AMD GPU back then showed that capping the frame rate was the best setup.

    You posted:
    Why would you want 1. instead of 2.? Capping your frame rate ensures you're in the second case.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2017
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  7. Agent-A01

    Agent-A01 Ancient Guru

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    Did you read the TLDR?
    tl;dr: Most people want to leave FreeSync + Vsync enabled.

    Freesync isn't inherently different than gsync; the same restrictions apply here.

    Freesync monitor at max refresh rate(where fps is greater than max refresh rate) is running normal vsync with all imposed latency issues as mentioned before.
    At max FPS/refresh rate, your freesync monitor is now a regular monitor.

    Now explain how that is benefiting the end user who purchased a monitor to have a low-lag, tear-free experience?

    To stay within freesync range you must have a FPS limit a few FPS below max refresh rate, otherwise vsync activates.

    In-game FPS limiters are not adding any lag(unless it's a poor implementation); where in-game is not possible RTSS is the 2nd best option.
    Do not use driver FPS limiter, it's very poor latency wise.

    You should do more research on the technologies behind freesync/gsync, it's clear you don't have a full understanding of it.
    Gsync101 at blurbusters is a good read, much of the information applies to freesync.
     
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  8. zeebaluch

    zeebaluch Member Guru

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    Chastity, do you want me to enable V-Sync in Driver setting and games as well?
     
  9. Chastity

    Chastity Ancient Guru

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    I listed the recommended setups as per AMD_Robert posted. If your priority is to not have screen tearing, then yes, enable VSync in game along with FreeSync in driver. If your priority is lag input for competitive first-person shoots, then disable VSync, tho note you will have tearing when your fps dips below the FreeSync range, tho this will not be too bad as your display supports LFC.

    Your monitor supports up to 100Hz framerate, and also LFC as per noted here:

    So I suggest you enable VSync, especially since you have a large FS range and LFC. Also try the monitor's GAME mode for possibly improved latencies. If the game you play can steadily offer 120+ FPS or ideally 144+FPS, then you can disable VSync.

    The others are suggesting you disable VSync always so you have low latency when outside the FreeSync range. With LFC, you won't have this problem, as it will double your framerate to keep it with FreeSync range, and therefore have low input latency. If FPS range is consistently 144 or more on the high side with VSync off, then by all means keep it disabled.

    If you want to conserve power, then keep VSync enabled. You are encouraged to experiment with different modes to see what works best for you.
     
  10. Agent-A01

    Agent-A01 Ancient Guru

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    OP don't listen to Chastity.

    He has little understanding of how Freesync/gsync works.

    To put it simply, to ensure the best experience you need to enable Vsync via drivers(ingame disabled) and set a fps limit 3 below your refresh rate. I.e. 141fps limit for 144hz monitor.
    As mentioned before, in game FPS limiter will be the best usually, if not an option RTSS fps limit will be great.
    Do not use driver FPS Limiter.

    Setting a FPS limit will reduce latency in general; besides that, when vsync is enabled and your FPS = refresh rate, freesync deactivates and vsync is running.
     

  11. Chastity

    Chastity Ancient Guru

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    Since there's a difference of opinion, I suggested he experiment with what works best for him. Since he has LFC support, which will keep him in the FS range while dipping below it, the only time he need worry about input lag will occur when he's at maxFPS. However, at maxfps, his buffers will be in sync with his frame output for minimal input lag.

    It also has been shown that increasing FPS above the monitor's maxfps does lower input lag, and the thrown out buffers will drop frames, but will not ADD ADDITIONAL latency nor introduces noticeable tearing. The same chap who did this testing also shown that FPS rates of 144 or greater is desired for having negligible tearing.

    Capping FPS either in game or with a limiter can keep the FPS within the low latency Adaptive Sync range, but as suggested by AMD_Robert, it can cause some issues. It has also been suggested that this warning may be outdated, and AMD addressed the issue regarding this or using FRTC.

    But please, don't say I don't know what I am talking about.

    It also depends on the game being played. Playing a RPG like Dragon Age: Inquisition doesn't benefit much from maintaining a forced low latency, as compared to a first-person shooter in multiplayer.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2017
  12. Chastity

    Chastity Ancient Guru

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    After reading up some more, I decided to retest the situation on my setup here, since it appears some info given by AMD is outdated.

    1) If you don't want to use VSync enabled, I found that using FRTC (Global profile) set to maxfps-2 works for avoiding tearing. (In my case it's 58) I like having the fps capped in order to reduce power consumption and heat. RTSS is also acceptable to use. My game profile isn't applying FRTC.

    2) If input lag isn't an issue, then you can use VSync enabled with FreeSync. (whether in game or via Global profile forced on) Since I lowered my FS range from 40-60 to 34-60 with CRU, having the VSync drop from 34 to 30 and locking there is no biggie. I also don't have LFC support.
     
  13. Alessio1989

    Alessio1989 Ancient Guru

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    @60-90Hz or so: Free-sync enabled + optionally cap frame-rate cap to the maximum value supported by your monitor when free-sync is enabled (which is usually -but not always - the maximum frame-rate).
    Enabling v-sync will introduce input-lag greater then frame-rate cap and halves the frame-rate every time you system is not able to output the front-buffer at a rate greater or equal to the target refresh rate of the screen.
    @Higher refresh-rate: if your screen is capable of high refresh rate (120-144-165 Hz or so) and you are able to output at such frame-rate (please not the "AND"), you may try to enable v-sync instead to cap the frame-rate.

    If your system is capable of any other type of hybrid v-sync then the rules are different and you have to try by yourself.
    The same apply to g-sync.

    Finally: NEVER use NOR force v-sync on games using flip presentation mode with "waitable object" (which happens usually - but not always or only - on Store and DirectX 12 games) since it is handled implicitly by the runtime: https://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/sample-application-for-direct3d-12-flip-model-swap-chains This is also a good read for all those people asking triple-buffering option everywhere without knowing what they are really asking for.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2017
  14. Agent-A01

    Agent-A01 Ancient Guru

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    Why do you insist on quoting Robert when he himself clearly doesn't have a full understanding of the technology?
    All of his poor recommendations included.

    Considering we have guys a blur busters who have extensively tested these technologies and have measured latencies with high speed cameras to come to solid conclusions with recommendations based upon thereof, you can safely ignore what robert says.

    No point in you arguing against factual data.
    You act like freesync is magically different than gsync when it's not.

    I have thoroughly tested freesync 2 monitor for a friend's setup using an RX480 and I can say the same recommendations of -3fps fps cap from refresh rate with vsync on is the best possible setup for low lag latency with zero tearing.

    I'll also point out to never use driver forced frame cap; it's terrible in comparison to RTSS/ingame
    As before, ingame is the best, unless it's unstable with heavy fluctuating FPS, then RTSS is the 2nd best option.
     
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  15. Chastity

    Chastity Ancient Guru

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    @Agent-A01 You may now continue to talk to yourself, as you are a very rude individual. A common feature with online forums these days.
     

  16. Agent-A01

    Agent-A01 Ancient Guru

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    Exactly how are you reading emotion through text?

    Obviously you can't and you are reading it wrong here.

    I'm just correcting misinformation; if you think when you are being corrected by someone that means they are rude well I don't know what to tell you.

    Never read text and assume emotion. My 2c
     
  17. MaCk0y

    MaCk0y Maha Guru

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    I don't enable Vsync with Freesync. I limit the FPS to 143 using Rivatuner. Works well for me. No tearing. Will test with Vsync on.
     
  18. deeselcyde

    deeselcyde Active Member

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    I've been playing with this as well.

    Any change I make in Radeon settings NEVER takes effect in game. For example "Wait for Vertical Refresh" I set to ALWAYS ON and it never implements it in-game. I have to use the in-game V Sync which does introduce input lag. The way I've been playing is Vsync OFF in Radeon settings AND in-game while setting RTSS at 73 (I have a 48-75 Freesync monitor).

    Is that right? It seems that everywhere I look (Reddit, etc.) everyone has these two (mentioned above) standpoints.

    Is there a reason why in my Radeon settings it never implements in-game?


    EDIT:
    I've been messing around with it and there is definitely slight input lag when Vsync and Freesync are enabled. I do like how on the stupid BF1 cut screens don't tear with Vsync is enabled though.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
  19. Agent-A01

    Agent-A01 Ancient Guru

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    Did you try enabling vsync in radeonpro?
     
  20. deeselcyde

    deeselcyde Active Member

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    I must have misread. I enabled it in the general Crimson drivers as Always ON. I don't have RadeonPro installed. I use the normal Crimson drivers and Rivatuner/RTSS to limit my frames.


    This situation with my monitor is I try to keep my FPS as high as possible because I mainly play Battlefield. So in theory if I have Vsync on and I'm pegged at 75 I'm technically using Vsync??? And if it drops below 75 I'm using Freesync? And it goes below 48 I'm using Vsync? My monitor is the Omen 32 48-75 Freesync.

    I feel like limiting my frames to 73 and disabling Freesync give me a smoother experience.... I do notice that in cutscreens I get tearing and it's overall not very nice but actual in game seems better. Am I doing this right? So many mixed thoughts online.


    EDIT:
    After even further testing it seems like the best combination of settings is Vsync ON believe it or not but limiting my FPS to 74. If it's at 75 I notice more input lag...not by a lot but I do notice it. I think I've found the best solution that works for me.

    I'm still curious for your input because it seems like everyone's mileage may vary?
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017

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