Should i add a 2nd 7970??

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon' started by Predator, Mar 20, 2013.

  1. Predator

    Predator Member

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    So as tittle says, i'm considering adding a 2nd 7970 to my gaming rig, first of all i will list all the setup:

    CPU: 3570k@ 4700 Mhz with Corsair H100
    Motherboard: Gigabyte z77-UD3H
    RAM: 2x8Gb GSkill RipjawsX
    PSU: Seasonic Platinum 1000W
    Case: Aerocool xPredator (couldn't be anyone else :D)
    GPU: Sapphire Dual-X 7970 @ 1100/1600
    Currently drivers set: 13.3 beta (March 18)
    Monitor: Benq XL2411T (the one 1080p with 144 hz)
    Sound Card: HD Titanum HD with Audio Technica ATH-AD700 headphones

    So the only game i'm only playing right now is BF3, i really like the smoothness on my display delivering 144hz but to get 144 FPS stable i need a little push , i had to lower settings to custom like this:

    Texture Quality: High
    Shadow Quality: Low
    Effects Quality: Low
    Mesh Quality: Ultra
    Terrain Quality: High
    Terrain Decoration: Low
    Anti-Aliasing Deferred: Off
    Anti-Aliasing Post: Off
    Motion Blur: Disabled
    Anisotropic Filtering: 16x
    Ambient Occlusion: Off

    Other Setting as follows:

    Vertical Sync: Enabled (even using the FPS fix to 143 or 144 and the FPS going under 144 if i set it off the screen tears so right now i'm enabling vsync)
    Field of View: 90(vertical) / 121(horizontal)
    Tripple Buffering: Enabled as i'm using vsync now
    Maximum FPS limit: 144


    So normally i never seen dips below 90 FPS and usually running a constant 100+ FPS, but i'd really want to push it all the way to 144 FPS for a perfect smoothness gameplay and maybe it the setup allows me increasing some image quality, that's why i'm considering adding a secondary GPU to do a 2way crossfire, now what i'm pretty much scared of is micro-stuttering, so i'm asking if anyone else is running a similar setup or have any idea if i should expect some kind of issue about it given my settings and current setup

    Any advice is welcome :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2013
  2. Nano2k

    Nano2k Active Member

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    I have 7950 crossfire and XL2411T and did a little testing with BF3 with or without crossfire.
    Without considering screen tearing, I dont notice it or dont have it, but only talking about smoothness of display, I like it when it feels like the screen is moving exactly in sync with the mouse.
    One card easy most of the time over 100fps, very smooth feeling even if fps not in sync with screen refresh rate, two cards, about 50% more fps at most but feeling 90-95% as smooth as one card, so personally not feeling better for gaming.
    Only condition I could say that two cards is better is if you put all settings at max then one card will start loosing sync feeling with screen and two cards will allow to keep the in sync feeling, but it will not feel as smooth as one card and lower settings anyway.
    Anyhow I would choose no AA and one card over two cards and max settings.

    The number of games that feel smoother with only one card (even with lower fps) vs two cards, is not even funny. BF3, Far Cry 3, Black Ops 2, etc.

    My 2nd 7950 is disabled most of the time now.

    PS. if you dont use 120 or 144Hz screens you might not be able to relate to my experiences.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2013
  3. Mr Terry Turnip

    Mr Terry Turnip Master Guru

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    I would probably cut myself if I had a 144hz monitor with VSYNC on.

    It is hard enough to get the power for solid 60FPS.

    You may run into some CPU issues with BF3 trying to get 144FPS on 64 player servers, thanks god I run at 60hz, as much as I would LOVE with a passion 120hz gaming, it is simply not possible on todays, over priced, weak hardware.

    Truth be told it would be fantastic if they introduced something more realistic, like say, 85hz monitors, the difference to motion clarity would be REALLY significant and it is a bit more realistic to achieve.

    I dread to think when we are finally going to be able to use 3 120hz monitors with high details and actually maintain it in current gen games, I mean it's 2013 now so realistically I would say 2020 at the earliest.

    Right now they can get away with pleasing the majority (the 30-60fps vsync off crowd) and making a HUGE HUGE amount of money from over priced weak hardware.

    While the rest of us who posses two whole eyes suffer.

    You know tbh, it's actually pretty frightening when you think about it, that a 3570k@4.8Ghz and 2x Titan SLI would still fall flat on it's ass trying to run BF3 (a two year old game and a very decent engine) at a 120hz 3 monitor setup, that's... £2000 on GPU power alone, fkn more like 200 quids worth imo.

    Over priced rip off all of it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2013
  4. eclap

    eclap Banned

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    remove yourself from your shell, step outside and think about it for a minute. is dropping £650 on 7970 cf worth it to play a year and a half old game in low settings?

    Anyway, I play BF3 maxed, only dropped MSAA to 2x to get rid of drops to low 40s (now drops to high 40s-50s).
     

  5. CPC_RedDawn

    CPC_RedDawn Ancient Guru

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    I can second this.

    I had crossfire 7970's and seriously. Its not worth it, when it works it works VERY well indeed and that is 90% of the time. But when it doesn't it can be a nightmare much the same with SLI.

    I got rid of one of my cards as I don't game higher than 1080p (was thinking of a 1440p or 1600p panel but too much money).

    My crossfire set up got me around 120-190fps mostly it was above 150fps to be honest and with newer drivers that could be even higher.

    Face it, BF3 is almost 2 years old now and the 4th will be out by the end of the year with better optimizations made to the engine and from the rumours AMD have partnered with DICE to make it part of the next Never Settle Bundle, so AMD cards will perform great.

    Its also strange, I play with my single 7970 in BF3 and literally I never see fps drop below 60... all the time the lowest I have seen is 71fps and thats on 64 player servers too. One card is more than enough.
     
  6. eclap

    eclap Banned

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    nice one CPC, I didn't notice drops below 60 either, but sometimes it does drop to 40s, I know because I spend as much time checking Afterburner OSD as I spend looking what's in front of me haha. but seriously, one hd 7970 is more than enough to play BF3, no matter how you swing it. I mean, if you pick it up professionally and need the ultimate rig, sure, crossfire is the way to go in your case, but otherwise, no. It's money spunkage.
     
  7. Mr Terry Turnip

    Mr Terry Turnip Master Guru

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    Just to add a point to some of what has been said above.

    It does depend what details you like, I have a 55" screen so AA is important to me, my crossfire scales very well in BF3 so it allows me to play how I like, which is, 60FPS - NO DROPS.

    However it is VERY close with the settings I use.

    enhance application settings, then, edge detect, then adaptive.

    As a result, this takes my cards to the ABSOLUTE MAX to hold 60FPS to play like this, SAFELY I will need to clock my cards allot higher than 1100mhz.

    [​IMG]


    As I said, I would cut myself if I had to try and hold 120FPS+

    Before I got my second card (this was specifically so I could turn up AA in BF3 and ofc some other nice games at higher details) NO WAY could I have a ROCK SOLID 60FPS in BF3 with ONE card, and as I use VSYNC that leave NO ROOM for 58FPS, not with my sensitivity to drops/stutters, and I am sorry but it just makes me MISERABLE to buy a high end card for the crazy prices we are charged today and have to suffer FPS drops OR lower details, if i had 120hz monitor or 3 of them even SURE I could understand it, but NOT AT 1080p 60hz on a 2 years old game.

    it's just NOT ON.

    Anyway, GL with what you are trying to achieve, we all have our goals and everybody knows how frustrated I get trying to achieve mine with todays hardware/docter'd games (crysis 2 Nvidia tess is just ONE of any which say 'Nvidia - the way it's meant to be played' - techreport - thanks GOD AMD implemented tess limitation into drivers to counter Nvidias 'GPU usage, upgrade your GPU' tricks)

    It's all such a dirty scam.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2013
  8. ---TK---

    ---TK--- Ancient Guru

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    please resize that image
     
  9. Agent-A01

    Agent-A01 Ancient Guru

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    sucks being on a tiny monitor doesnt it :p
     
  10. eclap

    eclap Banned

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    haha, I actually loled :)
     

  11. ---TK---

    ---TK--- Ancient Guru

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    lol.
     
  12. Lowki

    Lowki Master Guru

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    Ive been very Happy with my performance gains. So I would say Yeah man grab another card.
     
  13. GhostXL

    GhostXL Ancient Guru

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    Go for it, add another 7970. These cards are going to last a good long time yet power wise. You'll be very impressed with AMD's drivers as of late when it comes to Crossfire and scaling.
     
  14. DerSchniffles

    DerSchniffles Maha Guru

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    FYI, I have nothing useful to add to this lol.


    @MrTurnip- I don't have or never had anything over a 60hz monitor (well besides crt's lol) but cant you just set your monitor to whatever refresh rate you want? Like make a custom resolution and set your monitor to 85 or 90 or something....?

    this is something I worry about because I would love to have higher frames and vsync on but it dosent seem possible right now with hardware. Besides, I never get high end stuff, its too expensive for little gain-diminishing return.
     
  15. Predator

    Predator Member

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    Thanks for your reply, i really wanted to hear experience from someone using the same monitor as i do, since i try to achieve a perfect smooth gameplay it seems like adding more raw power does not cut it enough, the stuttering issues was holding me back and now you say with CF you loose smoothness besides having enough FPS it is something to bear in mind carefully


    I hear you, i really do, it's a shame what mfc force us to waste with technology moving as quick as it does, i mean i remember paying 500€ for a 8800 Ultra back then, a card i would not pay 50 bucks for as of now, same goes for CPUs, they rip us off and PC gamers we are so damned to console ports we have to spend tons of money to play old fashioned style port games it's ridiculous, Crysis 1 was probably the only exception as a true PC game in which you could show off PC potential

    i understand your opinion , however having tried "fancy" as i own a Shimian 27 IPS monitor at 2560x1440 res, the 7970 was powerfull enough to deliver a most of the time consistenly 60FPS, and while the image quality was superb, and it puts to shame the benq in that aspect, once i tried the 144hz i could never look back as for fast path games like BF3 online is, i have played enough time in both panels to lead myself to 144hz over IPS monitors, as much as IPS is beastly superior as to image quality, i rather lower down grapichs for a better smooth experience, when i'm online on BF3 i have not enough time to care for foliage, i need to concentrate on enemy targets and believe me, a few days ago i swicth back to my IPS and i really noticed the difference between playing at 60hz vs 144hz, once you set your brain to a new standard is when you can really notcie that kind of stuff, it happened to me when i tried first the Titanium HD + Audio Technica headphones, i felt so impressed as for the sound quality and directional pint-point sounds i could hear steps where i never did before, the onboard sound turned to ubber crap, now i am more accustomed to Titanium sound i feel like i hear it just normal, but i'm sure if i swicth back to onboard i would be wondering how the heck i was listening to this before without killing my self for doing it

    i agree one card is more that enough, but not quite when you wanna push all the way to 144 FPS heh, especially if you want to run ULTRA settings, and of course i wouldn't be spending extra amount of money just for one game, i mentioned BF3 is the only game i currently playing at, can't wait for some new tittles as GTA V (if it ever hits PC) and some others :)

    If you are playing at a 120-144hz display and you feel it's not smooth/not worthy the extra money then i will hear you :p (not saying your opinion is not valid in anyway ;) )

    Same as above reply :) , appreciate your input really :) , but for me it's a massive difference playing 60 hz vs 120-144hz especially on fast path games like BF3

    Thanks again heh :)

    Thanks :) , did you notice any stuttering issues in any games at all?

    Thanks, i know :) , the only "problem" is i'm scared of stuttering (i'm starting to hate that word lol)


    As of now and bearing in mind all the replies, i might consider to grab myself the cheapest 7950 and do a hybrid CF, it should be enough to keep 144 FPS or close to...if i'm not satisfied i can resell it quickly to not waste much $$ and wait for next gen and single card solution which allways has the pros of less hassle

    Wish BF3 online was not that funny :bang:

    Best regards
     

  16. Mr Terry Turnip

    Mr Terry Turnip Master Guru

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    I can deliver SOME good news, BF3 is one of the few games which not only scales very well but runs fantastic, some thing about that frostbite engine is just a great success, I am a huge fan. I am very sensitive to stuttering and I can tell you wit both SLI and Crossfire BF3 does not suffer multi GPU induced stuttering to my knowledge.

    Give it a go, if BF3 is your game, then Crossfire/SLI is a good thing to try, they go so well together, however, the whole point is so you can have higher details and maintain the FPS you want, quite frankly you sound more interesting in frags/winning as a RESULT of that LOW details is actually going to serve you better.

    I gave up competitive a LONG LONG time ago, now I care nothing about winning or losing, only having FUN and enjoying some LOVELY graphics and FLUID gameplay :D I love chargin into a site with my motorbike like a crazed madman lol
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2013
  17. yasamoka

    yasamoka Ancient Guru

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    OP, here is my impression with CrossFire, post #7:
    http://lebgeeks.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=13684

    It took a lot of effort, so please take the time to read it.

    This applies to 60Hz, but you can easily interpret it to 144Hz.

    I'd like to add that SuperTiling can be used without causing any microstutter, unlike AFR, but it generally won't / may not scale as well as AFR, as each card has to render the underlying frame geometry. RadeonPro supports SuperTiling.
     
  18. Mr Terry Turnip

    Mr Terry Turnip Master Guru

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  19. Predator

    Predator Member

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    Thanks :) , good news "arrived" hehe, yeah i'm not by any means any kind of pro player nor do i competitive play BF3, most people in forums tend to guess and advice not to spend cash on hardware for the purpose of achieving 120/144 hz/FPS unless you are a pro player, i disagree on this, it's not about being or not a pro player but also to have un enjoyable gaming experience, me as i said earlier i tried both IPS and maxed out settings for an eye-candy gameplay, and lower eye candy (either worst image quality from monitor and lower in-game settings) leaning towards smoothness at 144hz, i enjoy both, depending in which games, and i enjoy very much 144 hz and smooth feeling in BF3 even when i'm not a competitive player at all, it's just another way to enjoy your experience it's not necessary being a pro to get you a 120hz monitor for gaming :)

    me i also like that kind of kamikaze play style sometimes xD, it depends on my mood sometimes i try to get a good k/d ratio and help my team and lot of times i don't care at all at k/d ratio if i can sneak past enemy lines in operation metro and plant some C4 behind their arses :D



    Thank you very much, that's a huge and well writte-up right there :)


    As moving from an extreme overclocker to a casual gamer xD, i have had ran across every single issue you can imagine with multi-setup GPUs, but as vsync and tearing care not in a benchmark, this is something relatively new to me, to sum it up there's a long time since i don't own an AMD/ATI card and it's ages ago i had to struggle with CF issues back then, you guys remember x1800 series? with a master card for crossfire and a slave one, that was one of a hell amount of nightmares to even put it to run properly haha

    I have been doing some research and found this little piece of magic in software app called radeon pro :) , you can manually set your fliping queue which you cannot in CCC and by default using crossfire and vsync/tripple buffering combo it's set to a value of 3, this induces stuttering and fortunately you can set it to 1 or 0 depending on your game and needs, clearing the stuttering issues in many cases, it's the same as nVidia pre-rendered frames which you can change it in the nVidia control panel, not in CCC, but yes with Radeon Pro

    Best regards
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2013
  20. Lowki

    Lowki Master Guru

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    I was not aware of the radeon pro prerendered frames thing. Thanks for info have to try that out tonight.
     

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