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Samsung has Developed 108Mp Image Sensor for Smartphones

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Aug 12, 2019.

  1. Hilbert Hagedoorn

    Hilbert Hagedoorn Don Vito Corleone Staff Member

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  2. Clawedge

    Clawedge Ancient Guru

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    i strongly believe it should have jumped straight to 8k video recording instead of 6k.

    Really dont like fragmentation
     
  3. asturur

    asturur Master Guru

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    I mean, lol. Seems too much to me.
    I do not believe the lenses you have over those sensor let you do anything better than a standard dslr.
    Seems the usual war of numbers
     
  4. MegaFalloutFan

    MegaFalloutFan Master Guru

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    High MPx count used like lossless digital zoom thats the #1 benefit
     

  5. MegaFalloutFan

    MegaFalloutFan Master Guru

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    Not sure if you serious, to do that they need some sort of PCIe based storage which will increase the phone price even more and forget recording to microsd cards [unless its those new PCIe based, but i never seen those so far not any device that supports them]
     
  6. WhiteLightning

    WhiteLightning Don Illuminati Staff Member

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    would be nice if they would apply it to their own phones instead of others lol.
     
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  7. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Issue here is that for that kind of image sensor one needs pretty powerful processing chip. Photos likely work OK. But what about video. 6K @30fps is not win.
    People would end up recording at 4K @60fps as is usual while having better IQ than with lower resolution sensors.

    And what are those photos good for? Taking quick snap of some text on longer distance and it would still be readable? From experience even 48Mpix is a lot. And guess what? 8x6 is 48. So, limit is actually processing power not sensor.
     
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  8. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    The obsession with phone camera sensors and MP count still boggles my mind. What do you gain from a sensor like this? If you take a photo with low compression, even a phone with 256GB of internal storage is going to fill up really fast and struggle to buffer. If you increase the compression to something more reasonable, the photo will lose data quality, at which point, you might as well just use a cheaper sensor. And let's not forget the data bandwidth issue, where you get rolling shutter because the processor can't scan the whole sensor progressively, let alone write all of that data in a reasonable amount of time.
    Assuming a phone can even record video at 8K, that would still only be using about 1/3 of the total sensor.
    And then to top it all off, it makes low-light photos look even worse.

    The cost and marketing gimmicks behind these cameras just don't make any sense to me at all. Just give me a true 8-16MP camera with a progressive shutter.

    I suppose the one and only benefit I can see is digital zoom. A sensor like this could allow for great digital zoom detail with a more reasonable resolution.
     
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  9. Ridiric

    Ridiric Member Guru

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    No they wouldn't need PCIe based storage, RED 8k cameras use standard off the shelf mSATA SSD's in their so called specially developed memory cards, hell linus said that waaaaaaay back when he first got the cameras and its only recently people cottoned on to it and started kicking up a stink because of how ridiculously overpriced they are for what is essentially an mSATA SSD in a memory card looking case.

    So those cards only write at around 400mb/s maximum. (probably more realistically at around 350-380mb/s with how they are set up)

    Micro SD cards are still too slow for that though, they tend to top out around 100mb/s, full sized UHS II SD cards can get close to 300mb/s though, and the soldered on memory modules in phones generally run quite a bit faster than a micro SD card (at least on the higher end phones they do) not sure if they quite reach up to SATA SSD speeds or not though, but it wouldn't be too hard to make that happen as there are plenty of ultraportable laptops and tablets with single memory chip soldered on SSD's that run at or close to SATA SSD speeds.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
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  10. slyphnier

    slyphnier Master Guru

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    probably that the reason samsung moving from ext4 file system to f2fs
    note 10 and fold said using f2fs (UFS 3.0) ... and latest-news said it perform better than oneplus7pro

    well phone improvement not only from big MP
    those big MP will be with more bigger+faster storage
    right now we already at like 512gb / 12GB-ram ... wouldnt weird if next year they bump to 1TB / 16GB-ram
     

  11. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    Well that, and IIRC, Samsung is the lead developer of F2FS.
    Well at least then the exorbitant price point would be more reasonable.
     
  12. IceVip

    IceVip Master Guru

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    Doesn't really matter what number of pixels they stuff into those tiny sensors. If the sensor size doesn't change, the character of the image wont. Cheap software tricks to make it look better won't do any good in the eyes of people who actually know what's going on. P20 pro was the first one to change the sensor size somewhat drastically and it shows.
     
  13. JJayzX

    JJayzX Master Guru

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    Just so you all know, the aperture used on mobile phones limit resolution to 12-16 MP. It is a limit set by the physics of light. So you will never see a mobile phone produce photos like a DSLR or even that of a regular point and shoot. This is why you see some phones with multiple cameras.
     
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  14. HWgeek

    HWgeek Master Guru

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    What about Optics? no matter if they even go for 200MP- the Image Resolution [details not pixels] will be the same- the poor micro lens is the limiting factor even at current 48MP that looks just like up-scaled 20mp image.
     
  15. MegaFalloutFan

    MegaFalloutFan Master Guru

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    RED camera is not a good example, it uses proprietary compression, not industry video formats like [PoRes HQ, 422 and LT] and the camera hardware is optimized to record on FAT32 media [to speed up] with all the limitations of FAT32 [like file sizes]
    Eventually it all comes to what kind of Bitrate and file format Samsung going to allow.
     

  16. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    That's because in a lot of cases, it is just a scaled-up image. A lot of phones lie about the camera they're equipped with and use interpolation as a way to "spoof" the resolution.
     
  17. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    now now give them time they might not want raise the prices of there phones just yet... what what am i saying if put them on they will raise the prices of the phones and genius will buy them at them prices till the next price increase, where it starts all over again :)

    Tell me when we have commercial lens that will let me see the surface of the moon, in such detail that I can the equipment left on the moon clearly. we have lense that let use see millions of light years away that tend to have really nice images, but we cant get clear images of the all the equipment left on the moon even with humble.


    is that why alot of my images have massive amounts grain in them.
     
  18. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    no, thats due to underexposure and low light compensation.
     
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  19. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    No, that's due to 2 reasons:
    1. Phone cameras have extremely high pixel density on a tiny sensor, where each pixel isn't getting much information.
    2. The aperture is tiny, which limits the amount of light that enters the lens.
    Together, those require the camera to crank up the ISO (which if you're not aware, is basically the sensors' sensitivity to light).

    That's one of the main reasons I think this 108MP image sensor is stupid - higher pixel density without increasing the sensor size will make image noise even worse than it already is.

    The problem with interpolation is making images look blurry. They can kinda look like an oil painting up-close in some cases.

    EDIT:
    If you want to reduce noise, see if you can increase the shutter time. Just be sure you have a steady hand or else you'll get motion blur.
     
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  20. MasterBash

    MasterBash Master Guru

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    They did increase sensor size. Its huge. Its nearly 3 times the size of the S10's sensor and its only second to the 808 PureView. Bigger than the Lumia 1020.
     

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