Ryzen 4000 desktop processors moved to 5nm+ process and released in late 2020

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, May 29, 2020.

  1. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    I suspect with the 3100 vs 3300, theres actually a memory throughput disadvantage on the 3100 that causes it to suffer in gaming tests
     
  2. jwb1

    jwb1 Master Guru

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    I'll believe it when I see it. Remember the 5Ghz rumours. :D
     
  3. bobblunderton

    bobblunderton Master Guru

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    TSMC had 5nm booked up for foreseeable future with Apple, but Apple's sales to the clueless drones of society / sheeple are in the toilet. So there's a considerable amount of space on the wafer line there.
    I wouldn't believe 7nm+ is getting dropped for 5nm on Desktop chips though, maybe the mobile ones.
    FACT: AMD has already confirmed monolithic* 8-core 16-thread groups of processors, when it comes to L3 cache. This removes wait time while the processor waits to fetch non-local cache data. Where the current 3700x has 16+16mb of L3 cache, the next gen will have it all in a 32mb lump, saving the processor from having to use infinity fabric speed VS local cache speed (infinity fabric would bring it down to 'ram speed' introducing latency). The mobile designs out currently AND the 3300x already show that this monolithic cache design is beneficial compared to the 3100x.
    Monolithic = I know the L3 cache is no longer split, but I am pretty sure an IO die will still be required, even if there is just one chiplet on the processor, so not as truly monolithic as mobile. We shall see, however, as seeing is believing.
    Just get whatever you get a good deal on, intel or AMD. It doesn't matter. What you may think might be a barely noticeable upgrade, will be netting you over double the memory bandwidth, a better scheduler on the CPU, new USB standards and more ports of-course, possibly PCI-E 4.0 if you go AMD, and *WAY* better minimum frame-times. The memory bandwidth is very helpful in games that use four or more threads - but it's not just bandwidth, it's latency too - and it's easy to overlook how much that helps. Power efficiency is also a big thing, as not only will a new machine consume less power each day it's running, but you will have less heat piped into your rooms of your home due to the PC, and it also won't have to work as hard to do what it does need to do. Lots of new instructions will help you PC do a lot without breaking a sweat.
    I updated to Ryzen 3700x from a 4790k, don't regret it one bit. If you've kept your old one for 10 years already, I'd VERY VERY much say get X570 or B550 chipset motherboards, as they've got the newest standards - don't go buying an already out-of-date mainboard. Make sure you get at-least a 6-core 12-thread processor (and if you already have that on an older HEDT machine, why not step up to 8c 16t or 12c 24t?), and get at-least 16gb of RAM (more if you do content production, 8gb is soon not going to be enough). Don't forget to budget for an expensive cooler upgrade if you go intel.
    That having been said, your signature says you have a GTX 680. That will need an upgrade surely, if not out of speed necessity - it will be out of VRAM quite quickly in modern titles. Any card with 4~6gb of VRAM should be considered a bare minimum starting-point, like a 1660 Super / EVGA 2060 KO or AMD 5600XT. Or splurge and get a 2070 Super like I did. No regrets. Most expensive game of Quake II I ever played - made it 100% worth it.
    I know it stinks not getting to fulfill the PC upgrade (or complete replacement) itch. So don't keep putting it off, as there will always be something better right around the corner. Don't spend your life waiting forever; live it, love it, and enjoy it. I was quite enjoying building a PC after many years, last summer. I missed it so, expensive hobby or not.
    Since you've possibly not built in a while you may wish to throw together a config on PC part picker and post it to the forum if you're feeling a bit rusty or out of practice. Feel free to entirely ignore this line if you've been building regularly however, just not for yourself.
    TL-DR, if your PC is 10 years old, it doesn't much matter what brand you buy, just get a Ryzen or get one of intel's newer chips - whatever fits the budget. Just try to get the newest platform if you can, since you keep the PC that long.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2020
  4. jbscotchman

    jbscotchman Ancient Guru

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    What a fascinating turn of events.
     

  5. illrigger

    illrigger Master Guru

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    The problem I have with this is that current OSes can barely manage 64c/128t dual socket systems effectively. Doubling the CCX on EPYC would require a big shift from Microsoft and VMWare's current kernel and hypervisor code to be able to handle 512 threads without slowing themselves down to a crawl just trying to juggle them. And that's not even taking into account the need to double RAM capacity alongside it to effectively make use of the extra compute capacity. This is probably an example of a solution looking for a problem at this point, unless their primary goal is just to make 256t systems more affordable and manageable.
     
  6. asturur

    asturur Maha Guru

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    How is that a in a rumor around 5nm people comes out with the usual flame starter and we still tolerate it?
    I wish moderation was a bit more strict.
    Is not about what is said, but where. Can you open a new thread to talk about a new topic?
     
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  7. Reddoguk

    Reddoguk Ancient Guru

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    I think i worked it out. (pinch of salt)

    AMD will release 3000XT chips that were meant to be used as 4000 7nm+ and they weren't a big enough IPC increase to call them 4000 chips so Zen3 will be on 5nm instead and we'll get a new improved 3xxx XT chips in the mean while.
     
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  8. Venix

    Venix Ancient Guru

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    Oh i see i thought they are going to keep 2 ccx's per chiplet ok my mistake :p
     
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  9. metagamer

    metagamer Ancient Guru

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    Not a rumour, according to the title. More like a fact.
     
  10. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    Seems like anything AMD does upsets you greatly...

    Also, the 10900K runs cool because it is dissipating heat more effectively. Don't mistake that for the CPU itself running more efficiently. All that heat is just being dumped into the room more quickly.
    That isn't to say that shaving off some of the top of the die is a bad idea - I'm actually a bit surprised this hasn't been done years ago. But it seems rather delusional of you to see a smaller node and more cores per CCX as AMD being "driven nuts" but you don't think the same of Intel where the only way they can re-release their 5-year-old architecture is to shave off a few micrometers of material.
     

  11. asturur

    asturur Maha Guru

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    My point was more about the post above mine being pointless and out of context and just the usual unnecessary stuff.
     
  12. metagamer

    metagamer Ancient Guru

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    Mine was about you saying it's a rumour when in fact, it seems to be a fact.

    But yeah, I'm with you on that, this is an AMD related thread so it's a bit silly to discuss Intel in this thread. Those posts belong in the Intel threads, you would think.
     
  13. waltc3

    waltc3 Maha Guru

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    I'd say that Zen 3 will likely bring a total of ~30% IPC improvement over Zen 2, if not more (including clock improvements). @ 5nm AMD could easily increase the cache sizes over 14nm just like they did with Zen 2 @ 7nm. I read some quotes about Zen 3 moving to 5nm instead of the planned 7nm from a financial read of comments Dr. Su made very recently in response to some fairly good questions (for a change...;)) That may well be what Digitimes is referencing.
     
  14. DeskStar

    DeskStar Maha Guru

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    And hopefully a new BA GPU!!
     
  15. tunejunky

    tunejunky Maha Guru

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    Digitimes reported TSMC's announcement of of full 5nm production this year over a month ago.
    Gah Bless those tireless engineers, as such a drop in node is incredible by itself isolated from the time frame they executed it in. given that time frame makes it even more impressive.
    where this is really going to make a noise is in the "big navi", as now it will be released on the smallest node available and will out clock anything comparable with more efficiency.
    and on the note of efficiency, i do expect much from Nvidia at 7nm. i just hope neither company pulls an Intel by playing with power modes to tweak the stats.
     

  16. nevcairiel

    nevcairiel Master Guru

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    No, they would still have 8 cores per chiplet die, just arranged differently inside the die - ie. all in one complex, instead of 2 seperate CCX units.
     
  17. tunejunky

    tunejunky Maha Guru

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    not a rumor at this point as TSMC has confirmed both AMD getting special treatment and full 5nm production.
     
  18. Celcius

    Celcius Master Guru

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    If AMD could have foreseen the possibility of needing or wanting to delay ZEN 3, for whatever reason, they could have announced Q1 2021 as the official launch point right out of the gate. And, by doing so, perhaps saved themselves from all the sturm und drang associated with not initially supporting the new generation on older chipsets by clearing the, "...through 2020" hurdle. Now they have the possibility of a delayed launch *and* whatever the overhead is of supporting the 400-series motherboards. No good deed goes unpunished.

    If a successful switch to 5nm can be executed within 2020, or even a month or so more, I'd say that is some pretty nimble engineering and manufacturing kung-fu.
     
  19. Noufel

    Noufel Member Guru

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    time to retire my ol 8700k ands 1080ti pair, they served me well
    5nm cpu and 7nm gpu here i am :D
     
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  20. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    Honestly, working at TSMC is probably one of the safest workplaces in the world. No virus is gonna get through their cleanrooms.
     
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