RX Vega Owners Thread, Tests, Mods, BIOS & Tweaks ! (cont.)

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon' started by Glidefan, Mar 31, 2019.

  1. Teo_

    Teo_ Member

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    Stock values to anything are there for a reason and sometimes this reason is well documented in a white paper provided by the design team. Now this design team holds onto knowledge why this value is there holding onto very expensive,complicated testing methologies behind it. As example your car's engine has a piston wall of certain X .mm because the acclaimed/certified designer put this piston in a CAD simulation under certain variables in controled enviroment for X amount of turns then he represented this in real world scenarios and extensive tests so he finally figured WHY this X number needs to be used so your engine does not die (or if it dies he is the one to control when and how aka planned obsolescence.) This is the same with our scenario its just a VGA (an overbuilt one) not a car engine (relevant). There are almost always 4 ways to use a product but this extra robustness enables some more headroom to take advantage of.

    1. This product gets modded to work above its specifications providing more performance because it handle it but you get less lifespan vs stock. How much less needs time, samples and experience to figure. (Or just OC it 30% then 2 years later and after a poor reflow some poor guy buys it on eBay listed as "office work never O/C." = I hate this.)
    2. This product stays at default specs providing default performance but respecting the factory values and holding on that extra robustness/built quality you are allowed to use this product for a longer period of time.
    3. The product gets modded to work under its specs so it underperforms but it sometimes worth the trade (mining comes to mind in our example).
    4. Combination of the above. (UV/OC in this case)

    Now I am into the no.2 mentality of the above but this card's cooling design does not allow it to work within specs. I have repasted this card 3 times with same paste (AS5) and having done tests from 2 of these times I got the same temps all around. I have pc built experience over 15 years and owned 3 heat intensive cards dual gpu vgas (ASUS ARES 2, EVGA GTX 295 CO OP, NVIDIA 590) so my mounting and repasting skills are out of question. This Vega is a kid's toy to me. Another thing (does not account that much though) is that my motherboard is oriented downwards so the Vega heatsink is actually pulled onto the actual chip helped by gravity a bit (yea this does not compare to the bracket clamping force but still +5newtons (around 500+gramms i guess)).

    On the card UV process or any process altering factory values,
    I would only do it if I could mod the BIOS but since it is digitally signed, any attempt to boot a vega card with the vbios modified will result in a failed checksum of which the vega gpu's integrated security processor will shut down the card. OverdriveNtool /powerplay methods are a workaround to me and their stability/effectiveness solely depends on the driver/OS and its services(.NET). Every serious modder having stability and effectiveness in mind would only trust BIOS modding heck even actual hardware hardmodding. Everything else is an inferior alternative workaround and this is known for ages.
    Now I am given a BIOS from factory that can be stable 100% on my card and draw considerably less power (30% vs 240w|20% vs 210w) having around 7% less performance. That both sovles my heat problems and is probably tested more that you or me or anyone can ever test. Thank for your recommendations but I would rather stay on this BIOS side solution till I upgrade my cooling solution.

    Kinda irrelevant but the Pro drivers may enable extra features that gaming ones lack.
    Most important ones is 10bit color support (not 10bit pixel format) system wide (though I do not have a 10bit monitor to actually test it) and also extensively tested drivers on professional software.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2021
  2. Dekaohtoura

    Dekaohtoura Master Guru

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    You don't need to justify your reasons, certainly not to me.
    I just suggested an alternate methodology to achieve your desired results.

    If you're happy with what you've got on your hands, there is no need for further debating.

    Have fun with your card.
     
  3. Teo_

    Teo_ Member

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    Sure man but this conversation is public so If anyone is intersted in this I would like to have some context.
    I only take your recommendation as motive for constructive discussion and im thankful for it. :)
     
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  4. Mt441PL

    Mt441PL Active Member

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    Found a fix for CatalystAI. Doom 3 with mods (absolute HD, SikkMod, etc.) you can still run it with the ATI driver profile kickin in. You just need to disable CatalystAI (30,00 and _DEF as 0). No need to restart driver, just restart game. Because this is something to do with AMD's dynamic optimizations but running e.g. Doom3.exe with those mods results in a too zoomed in or white screen only HUD displaying. Just do this, it shouldnt lose you performance in any game really, i found CS:Go played around 300+ fps at 2560x1080 on high with a bit of msaa and trilinear so clearly this isn't a dealbraker. It's a shame AMD includes so much weird 'fixes' like this that break many games

    Also i made a compilation of tweaks filled with a lot of legacy CCC era functions that AMD doesnt add to drivers anymore for some reason. I did it myself but took some registrys from back in the day, some Ati tray tool tweaks, some modern tweaks and some Catalyst 2015 era tweaks for 'fixing' downclocking behavior. It won't do magic, but it's worth a shot, my Vega seems to perform best with this, so i stopped adding other tweaks to maintain stability. 21.2.1 tested and working, even with Catalyst 15.11.1's control panel installed as extra (this way you can enable HQ AF, Geometry Instancing, Mipmap Quality - most useful) and yeah. Radeon settings will still work just fine. So try it guys if you want! https://pastebin.com/41e8FYbJ
     
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  5. Teo_

    Teo_ Member

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    That sounds interesting... Man ATT was so awsome...*SNIF*
    I noticed u have "EnableAspmL0s"=dword:00000001 and "EnableAspmL1"=dword:00000001 enabled, I̶ ̶d̶o̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶s̶e̶ ̶s̶e̶t̶ ̶b̶y̶ ̶d̶e̶f̶a̶u̶l̶t̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶2̶1̶.̶2̶.̶2̶ ̶(̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶e̶x̶i̶s̶t̶e̶n̶t̶ ̶a̶t̶ ̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶r̶e̶g̶i̶s̶t̶r̶y̶)̶.̶They are ASPM related but what excactly do they manage? Also do you think legacy functions still work (e.g. flipqueue size = main3d now)? (and if yes how can we tell if they are, and if they actually are how we know if they do not interfere with the existing ones/ create bugs/instability etc). Also something surely important for gaming responsiveness/latency are these options FlipQueueSize | MAIN3D_DEF | MAIN3D | MAIN3D_SET It would be intersting to see how these impact render queues with GPUView and have actual proof of these options taking effect because sometimes the difference is so small that placebo takes place. @OnnA who already helped me clarify MAIN3D_SET at RadeonMod thread could shed some light because I still do not fully understand how these settings differ from each other. I am not expert at GPUView but I can do some tests on different API's and upload them.

    Anyways thanks for the collection keep on! :)

    Edit: Jk I 'm just blind (I put them by hand to 0)
     

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    Last edited: Feb 16, 2021
  6. Mt441PL

    Mt441PL Active Member

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    ASPM? Yeah, it appears on my system every time i install a modern driver. Flipqueuesize might not work as drivers override it, though i did notice more lag at 2; Its not the render queue or Main3D that i wanted to address but to enable or safely disable power savings that arent automatically added into regedit.
    Other than that, it just exposes some functions to change in driver (you need CCC installed to show them, you still have Radeon Settings), it enables some power savings so that your card doesnt cook itself like most people who set everything to off, and it just, yeah, is a mishmash of CCC era stuff.

    I'll update it because i found disabling CatalystAI completely (30,00) breaks some really old games (quake2 vanilla for example) but _NA stil doesnt disable it. Maybe there is a way to override it per game but no one knows for years - probably not. I removed this entries and instead just rename the .exe, and disable it for myself because i don't run quake2.exe original my mouse breaks in it so i have to use Yamagi Q2 or Q2RTX (OGL mode).
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2021
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  7. OnnA

    OnnA Ancient Guru

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    The ASPM should be at Factory default IMhO.
    For Vega is very important, i have my usuall Tweak here (Read the OP no.2).
    But as always You need to read it & edit some of my stuff for Your RIG, especially resolutiions ;) i have 1440p 71Hz 10Bit Monitor.

    Some Tweaks are Placebo this days for sure, some are not.
    HQ Aniso is working NP, EQ-AA and more...
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2021
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  8. OnnA

    OnnA Ancient Guru

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  9. apple020997

    apple020997 Active Member

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    The saga of my Vega continues with a weird twist of events:

    I have a secondary partition in my SSD with Win10 1909 and 21.1.1 drivers, as I needed it for some mods on some EA games. There, even with my relatively heavy UV, I can play for at least 2h without any crash, either BSOD (thread_stuck_in_device_driver caused by amdkmdag.sys) or just video and PC freeze with audio still working. BUT (very big BUT) every game is stuttery, like there's some very big problem with the frame pacing, even with/without enhanced sync and Freesync.
    In the main partition, with Win10 20H2 with ALL the updates and 21.2.2 drivers, even after a clean Win10 install, I can't play for more than 30-60 mins with the same UV or EVEN STOCK without either a BSOD or video/PC freeze.

    I am at loss: what the F**K is going on?????? Is my Vega just jealous of my future 6800XT or is my PC haunted? I already tried jerry-rigging another 650W PSU dedicated 100% to my Vega, no changes. Every other part of my PC is fine, especially the RAM (passes many loops of Memtest64 and a big run of Memtestx86).

    I'm trying to install the latest dev build of Win10 insider as a last resort measure.
     
  10. OnnA

    OnnA Ancient Guru

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    Must pass 5-10min of TS Stress test (Time Spy).
    Check Your UV/OC, the GPU is fine.
    Sometimes PP_Power table set in OverdriveN is helpfull.

    Note:

    I find out that latest Drivers are better in terms of OC handling, now can have CL14 :p
    (Last good was CL16)... Vega is getting better & better.
     
    apple020997 likes this.

  11. apple020997

    apple020997 Active Member

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    Well, with the beta (build 21313) adn the latest 21.2.2 drivers it seems that I have my stability back! Previously, before the day it started crashing, there were zero stability issues, even with Time Spy, since I was fine-tuning the UV/OC with many different games. I'm not bothering with other softwares for tuning my card except for Wattman in the drivers.

    Not that I won't upgrade to a 6800XT when reference ones can be bought at MSRP, BTW...;););)

    EDIT: As my usual, spoke too soon. With this beta, it crashes after 10-15 min more than before, but still crashes:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2021
  12. apple020997

    apple020997 Active Member

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    Weeeeellllllll.... disconnecting the second monitor SEEMS to have stopped the crashes, since it would crash every 10 min after the first one... Is that because the main display is connected with HDMI and the second one with DisplayPort?
     
  13. OnnA

    OnnA Ancient Guru

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    Who knows, now on with OC/UV :p
     
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  14. Mt441PL

    Mt441PL Active Member

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    Never mind. Found catalystAI doesnt break games - i had some local storage corruption over reinstalling Steam over the game data. Either way CS:Go doesnt seem to start up with MSI Afterburner hooking into it - you have to make a profile in RTSS and disable onscreen overlay. Its a shame, because i dont want to use Radeon's overlay... I really like the display of MSI AB. Oh well, it's Valve's choice, not ours XD

    EDIT: Updated my tweak to get rid of some 'bugs'.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2021
  15. Mt441PL

    Mt441PL Active Member

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    Also i tried HDR at 2560x1080 and the change of colors from SDR to HDR isnt a problem, in fact after adjusting brightness it looks amazing, sure it's more oversaturated in some spaces but it looks NICE!
    the problem is either the driver, or some games just dont like it and will give me a very dimmed screen until i quit the game or run it in windowed AND change the HDR to SDR brightness in Windows. Maybe it's a Vega thing? Borderless obviously bypasses this.

    It's a shame because my monitor, despite being a budget VA panel, has great colors, and somehow claims it does 12-bit at 120hz, and 10-bit at 144hz - over HDMI 2.0! It's not Freesync Premium , not sure if it's 2, but it's definitely Freesync.
    Works with Freesync + HDR too.

    I had to remove monitors using CRU after reinstalling the driver for card, because, well, i sometimes get corruption in my monitor's OSD when i try to access it while running a game @ 200hz, i do have a ultra high speed certified HDMI 2.1 cable, so i wonder why its happening, it almost always happens when i have some tweaks applied. I dont think its the monitor, power brick is original and everything is OK with it; I think its something to do with driver, but worst case, my partly not so in great shape card.

    Update: I tried 120hz with freesync and that works fine. It's a shame despite 200hz working on the monitor , cable and card itself, that i get this problem. Maybe i'll try Displayport via my Club3D cable and see if it goes away.
     

  16. Mt441PL

    Mt441PL Active Member

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    Okay. I ended up flashing the MSI Vega 64 Airboost BIOS onto my reference Vega 56, because
    1) it seems to have the best performance for my Samsung HBM2 based blower card
    2) it is a Vega 64 BIOS, but latest GOP / BIOS, the same PCB and cooler
    3) it has some nice memory timing boost and nice core clock boost, utilizing the stability of 1.2v voltage.

    I pass a fan speed via 'firmware control' in latest MSI AB beta so the fan runs a little louder, still not too annoying in a closed case!
    And it hits about 75-78c, depending on game, very rarely do i see the card being so hot it hits 80c, if it does just ramp speed from 48% a little.

    It IS a single fan card, but it works fine, unfortunately a lot of 64 air boost cards can't hold these clocks, you need to have enough thermal headroom for it to not crash. I had my card repasted with Kryonaut which definitely helps with the temperatures!
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2021
  17. Teo_

    Teo_ Member

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    80c GPU temp is turbo bad. If it is Hotspot temp then I would stay bellow 90-95c at all costs (105c is your bios hardlimit (same on every Vega actually) then u throttle).
     
  18. OnnA

    OnnA Ancient Guru

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    Any temp up to 75C^ the Hotspot max at 85-90C^ for Normal GPUs.
    LiQuiD has it much lower, so no worry (55C^ and Hotspot max i saw was 75C^ in Hot summer on my HW).
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2021
  19. OnnA

    OnnA Ancient Guru

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  20. Mixa

    Mixa New Member

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    Guys I need your help! I've got vega 64 reference card recently and after a couple of days in use it started to behave itself very weird. In example when playing games after 15-20 mins its fans ramp up and the screen goes black and that also happens sometimes when i am browsing chrome. I ve tried with some undervolting but i didnt go too deep in it cause i am inexperienced in that type of stuff
     

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