Rumor: Zen 3 sees yet another IPC Significant gain

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Oct 14, 2019.

  1. Matt26LFC

    Matt26LFC Ancient Guru

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    Sounds great, but can't see this coming soon, Zen2 has only been out what a couple months! This won't be for at least 10 months minimum I'd have thought.
     
  2. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    Maybe by that time they will manage to produce a chipset without a fan.
    Also, I believe it when I see it. So hurry up AMD I have a feeling my rig's "dying" sooner than later.
     
  3. Reddoguk

    Reddoguk Ancient Guru

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    We still need B550 mobos because X570 is too expensive.

    The cheapest X570 is 170 quid. They have had there money now so please release B550 for the masses.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2019
  4. Aekold

    Aekold Active Member

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    As much as I like the idea, realistically, I suspect that would add a lot of additional power usage / heat for little performance gain.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way SMTs work is basically optimizing the core's usage by not letting it sit idle. While it's processing the first thread, it preloads information into the second thread, so that the core can immediately start on that once done. In some cases, it can handle aspects of both threads simultaneously (as long as they're not using the same resources on the processor), but my understanding is that this is limited in scope. As such, hypertheading is not as effective as adding another actual core, but allows the existing one to work to its full capacity.

    If all of this is true, adding extra threads probably wouldn't contribute much in the way of real world gains. It probably would increase power usage and add heat, though.
     
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  5. Aura89

    Aura89 Ancient Guru

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    That doesn't mean anything, since Zen 2 APUs will be released in 2020 on AM4. It means literally nothing about Zen 3 on AM4.


    This is the best indiciation that Zen 3 will be on AM4, as yes, DDR5 will most likely be the reason why AM5 will exist, just like AM2 was DDR2 and AM3 was DDR3

    Though again if Zen 3 is on AM4, then that means AM4 has been extended into 2021 support at the least, considering Zen 3 APUs will be released in 2021 on AM4 in that case.


    There's no reason to get a B550 motherboard over an x470/x370 and possibly even B450/B350
     
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  6. buhehe

    buhehe Member Guru

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    It really depends on how much more headroom there is between a core's full potential and the existing thread(s) running on it.
    I feel like it's one of those things with sharply increasing diminishing returns, although it might be very useful in very specific contexts.
     
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  7. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    By the time I ready to think about doign new system AMD will have sorted out all the IPC and STP, not that matter any more case STP is thing of past MTP is starting to kick off and matter much more.

    Was looking at Microcenter I "could" get Ryzen 7 3800x and Asus Tuf Gaming x570-plus Wifi for $538
     
  8. JamesSneed

    JamesSneed Master Guru

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    Since nobody really knows I will toss my hat in the speculation. AMD's Zen3 will be AM4 and will be backwards compatible to even some x370 boards from some MB vendors. I expect AMD to tweak the caching to get a bit more IPC, shrink the IO die to 7nm(old TSMC process) for some low power savings for laptops etc, the move to 7nm+ will allow higher frequencies, and a few other tweaks to eek out IPC. If AMD does shrink the IO die that also means it is shrinking the chipset since they are both the same exact same floor plan with Zen2 I expect them to keep that approach with Zen3. Passive cooled PCIE 4 chipsets should then be easily doable. See you summer of 2020.
     
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  9. RED.Misfit

    RED.Misfit New Member

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    They should be ready for the summer time (maybe late summer rather than early like this year). Remember, Zen 3 design is complete. They are already working on Zen4 design right now.
    That and 7nm+ (partial) EUV ready for volume production is a good sign that like their previous zen generation, they'll deliver on schedule.

    Like the news say, "they are probably taping out early samples" to evaluate the new design, not that i really know how they proceed from that on, but taping out processor is a matter of month(s ?) i think. So the volume production has to began somewhere around Q2 2020 to get there for summer time.
    They also have no choice than moving forward as fast as they can, Intel won't wait for them. They want to stop AMD growth and will release new architecture more often too. Competition require fast innovation.

    I think that's no real secret, AMD themselves considers Zen3 like a small step in the Zen family. Why change the socket for a "small step".
     
  10. wavetrex

    wavetrex Master Guru

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    Explain that to Intel which has 3 different mainstream sockets for DDR3 and two mainstream sockets (so far) for DDR4 with four different chipset requirements for what is basically the same CPU architecture.
     

  11. Aura89

    Aura89 Ancient Guru

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    If Zen3 was DDR5, then it'd make sense. Since it's been shown to not be, this is why i've given up on the idea that Zen 3 will be a new socket. That being said i really worry about 16mb roms next generation....
     
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  12. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    The memory bandwidth necessary for SMT4 will necessitate DDR5.
     
  13. Dazz

    Dazz Master Guru

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    They will just remove support for older processors like they have been doing already, so Zen 1xxx and 2xxx support maybe removed and keep 3xxx and add in 4xxx.

    In any case i am impressed with the performance increases AMD has been doing, Zen 51% than bulldozer, Zen+ an extra 5%, Zen 2 an extra 13-15% so from 1st to 3rd Gen thats nearly 20% increase now another 8%... Intel hasn't done that in 10 generations!!!! Unless you factor in all the exploits Intel has to patch which now cripples Sandy.
     
  14. ladcrooks

    ladcrooks Master Guru

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    I am happy with Amd as it is. But if it is way better, Zen 3, then an upgrade I DO NOT NEED WILL FOLLOW - Dam you AMD :p
     
  15. Aekold

    Aekold Active Member

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    Yeah, that's what I think as well. I doubt there is a whole lot of extra potential to be squeezed out of a core by adding extra threads to it at this point. If you go from 70% utilization to 90% by adding a second thread, adding a third probably won't get you much further.
     

  16. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    I expect Zen2+ to be AM4. And then Zen3 as AM4 and AM5.
    AMD has IO die, that solves issue of connecting cores to different memory. In past AMD delivered CPUs capable to use 2 memory types. But now, they can do it without wasting transistors.
     
  17. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    There will not be a Zen 2+
     
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  18. Alessio1989

    Alessio1989 Maha Guru

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    SMT4? Who the hell made this terrible idea spread over the internet? We waited decades to see a good compromise between SMT and pipeline length plus a decent branch prediction...
     
  19. Silva

    Silva Master Guru

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    I don't expect Zen2+ to be a thing, AMD is clearly pushing for Zen3.
    As to Socket change, only time will tell. I'm confident we will see at least one last CPU before AM4 retires. I could be wrong.
     
  20. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    There's no reason to change socket, unless changing memory support. It wouldn't make much sense to release Zen3 on a new socket, with DDR4....then turn around and release Zen4 on a new socket again for DDR5.

    In any case, I can still hold out until Zen4....
     
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