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[Rumor] NVIDIA Super: Refreshes GeForce RTX 2060 ($249), 2070 ($399), 2080 ($599)

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by EL1TE, Jun 2, 2019.

  1. metagamer

    metagamer Maha Guru

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    They'll be good cards, no doubt. I don't see AMD selling them cheaper than Nvidia equivalent card, which could be an issue for some. I got my 2080 close to these new prices btw, I'm sure quite a few did.
     
  2. metagamer

    metagamer Maha Guru

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    You're forgetting that AMD are no better than Nvidia. Remember the 980ti? Nvidia top dog. FuryX comes out a few months later and costs more. Same with VII vs 2080. 2080 outperformed the VII more often than not and it cost no more than the VII. High end is just that. Diminishing returns.

    It's like saying that Ferrari priced themselves out of many people's budget. Sure, but that's their target audience, the riches. The £1200+ Nvidia gpus are also pretty much just that. They're not for everyone, they're for those who can afford them. And I'm pretty sure there's some wise people at Nvidia (and AMD) who see a market for these cards. Otherwise they wouldn't exist.
     
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  3. alanm

    alanm Ancient Guru

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    Capitalism also involves risky long term strategies that dont immediately pay off in the short term. I dont think Nvidia made an "error" with RTX, it was a risky move and they were very aware of the potential short term consequences (despite them saying that RTX card sales were "lower than expected"). They may be fast approaching a dead end with normal rasterization and process shrinks which could see their graphics business fail to develop much further in a few years. They need new things to spice up their game and RTX is it. As disappointing it may be in the initial stages, it may eventually inject a second wind in their business to keep them going for longer than would have been possible otherwise.

    The may "piss off' a few consumers in the process, but this is a very rapid turn-over business where consumers have short attention spans. All it takes is for Nvidia to release newer GPUs with killer price/perf and all past failures are forgiven.
     
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  4. Mesab67

    Mesab67 Member Guru

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    I agree. Of course, super high-end / niche products are just that, always has been. For the rest of us the primary driver is performance:cost. A company needs to give the consumer a reason to buy. For those of us upgrading (and savvy 1st time buyers) we need to see an acceptable performance:cost ratio and with this, Nvidia did something a little different with the original 20xx series pricing. That's the real (and pretty much only) issue we all have - nothing unreasonable there. The pricing justification i.e. RTX has been shown to be a little undeserved/miss marketed. Time will tell whether Nvidia can afford the associated pricing risk. I have no doubt they can. True competition might be problematic.
    However, ray tracing is most definitely the future and Nvidia did very well in introducing it's real-time take. We all need companies to do this and take risks. AMD/Intel etc are in the same boat. We've come far quickly and I'm sure this will continue.
    Currently sitting on a 1080 (and been willing to upgrade for over a year) I'll buy into any company offering a worthy and economic reason to do this. I, and many others, still waiting...an odd situation for Nvidia?

    (If a company comes out with a new product specifically targeted to compete against a specific competitor's product then the consumer needs to be properly informed with a compelling reason to buy. If that reason is proven true then we get the standard outcome. The VII, quite simply, is a uniquely niche product: while the VII did have 'gaming' in it's marketing there were equally loud non-gaming characteristics that shouted out equally loud consequences if you were to try to compare it with an Nvidia gaming card (e.g. 2080) and chose not to inform the reader of these additional attributes...you would appear unwise to do so).
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
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  5. metagamer

    metagamer Maha Guru

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    I agree with what you say.

    But, imagine you're on a 10xx gpu and want to upgrade. What options do you have? I'll tell you from my personal experience... I had a 1080 but wanted a boost to my performance. Options I had were to buy a 2nd hand 1080ti for around £500 or buy a brand new 2080 for a £140 more. It was a no brainer for me, yes I paid more, but I also got more performance and a "gimicky" feature, as most will call RTX. I didn't buy it for RTX, that was just a bonus.

    So, for anyone on a 1070 and above, what options did they have? With AMD not pushing anything out to compete? And when they finally did, it cost the same as 2080 and performed worse?

    Yes, the VII was a fine card, albeit a bit overpriced at launch and it had issues (heat and noise). But if you're a gamer, why would you buy it? But if you're not a gamer and looking to buy the VII as more of a "pro" gpu, sure, great. But that is also a niche market.

    And then Nvidia released the 1660/ti cards that are actually pretty great from bang/buck standpoint. Look, I'm not here to defend anyone. I'll happily point out, though, that the VII released after the 2080, performed worse and cost the same (if not more) than the 2080.

    There's no sides being taken here. Both AMD and Nvidia run a business and are here to make money. The fact is, we are in a situation we are in right now, because Nvidia didn't have any competition for many years. Let's hope this will change soon and we all see a better price/performance ratio. AMD have been pulling up some trees in the CPU department, let's hope they can replicate that in the GPU segment and we all get a better deal in the long run.
     
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  6. Jayp

    Jayp Member Guru

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    True but let's not hold our breath. Look at the Radeon VII. It literally only joined Nvidia pricing unless you have some specific non-gaming use for the card.
     
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  7. metagamer

    metagamer Maha Guru

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    So true. I still find it interesting that AMD can more than compete with Intel in the CPU department, offering great performance at cut prices, but when it comes to GPUs, they seem to price their products similarly to Nvidia. I mean, I kinda speculate why, but I'd love to hear an expert's explanation.
     
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  8. Jayp

    Jayp Member Guru

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    How about that new pricing is for existing cards and the existing prices will be for updated cards...

    I get excitement around Navi but I am not holding my breath on the very long awaited Navi. 10% better in Strange Brigade over a 2070 isn't crap really in a game that AMD holds a lead in anyways. Pricing of Navi will be most important as performance doesn't seem to be earth shaking without knowing a price. If you consider that it is 10% faster than 2070 in SB that means it is only 3% faster than Vega 64. So AMD is giving us an efficient slightly faster Vega 64 just like Nvidia gave us a marginally more powerful 1080 with RTX features that are hardly worth it at this point. So the biggest factor is that price. If it isn't cheaper than a 2070 by like $100 minimum, AMD isn't doing crap for us just as Nvidia hasn't really. GPUs post Pascal have been lackluster AF. I enjoy my 2080 Ti but I can't say it was a smart buy. I bought it because I could and I like to play with new tech. Anyone on Pascal is smart to stay there. I have a 1080 and 1080 Ti in the house too and both are still great performers.
     
  9. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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  10. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    Let me rephrase, if I may.

    Paying for future R&D, I do not agree with.
    Paying for the R&D that went into the product I am buying, is fine.
    Paying for the current R&D product and the future R&D product, is price gouging and extremely negative towards the consumers.

    What I (kinda) guess I am suggesting, or feeling, is that nVidia is mitigating the future cost of R D for them to mitigate risk/cost of research and development for stuff that may not actually have a ROI to it.

    Take the R&D they put into autonomous vehicles - where did that money come from? Investors? Stockholders? because that side of the company is probably not going to get its ROI on that side of the business for a long time to come.

    RTX, I suspect, is like that: the RTX element of the graphics cards cannot in any way be as expensive to manufacturer as they are making out - so the high price might be them mitigating risk...and consumers are the ones paying for them to just throw money into something for the future instead of paying for the present.
     

  11. metagamer

    metagamer Maha Guru

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    what high price? 2080 costs the same as VII
     
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  12. AMDMan2016

    AMDMan2016 Member

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    Was Almost Ready to Purchase a 1660TI Card for my Intel I7 7700 PC, but now not sure, Though I may still go that route, as 99.9 percent sure won't have much of a bottleneck if I go for the 1660 Card, 2060 i'm thinking i'll have a bottleneck due to the processor and possibly PCI-E Lanes, not sure how much motherboard has, as this was a Pre Built system Asus G11CD-K Desktop, Did upgrade power supply already to Evga G3 650Watt, so set there
     
  13. MrBonk

    MrBonk Ancient Guru

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    Maybe they are doing bad because all that extra money for useless features? Almost no games use DLSS (Which looks like a soupy oversharpened mess and is not a real replacement for native res AA.), and ray tracing is a horrible trade off visually for the performance required.

    Meanwhile Nvidia has a huge back catalog of existing rendering tech that once the marketing fad was over, has been all but abandoned despite the large potential use for them all. This is more to add to the pile.
     
  14. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    Please indicate the products that were priced out of reach.
     
  15. Aura89

    Aura89 Ancient Guru

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    Companies can't operate that way.

    Any successful company will take their own profits they made off a previous product to make another new product that is better then the previous, to hopefully make a profit again.

    The way you stated that it implies you think companies should never put the money they made into newer products. I can only assume then they should take out loans and be forever in debt because they are not allowed to use their profits to better their future products?

    That's not a sound business plan.

    No matter how much of the cut they take from the product, if they actually net out in the end, your purchase will ultimately go into R&D for the future product, and the company will hope to make that back, plus more profit for the next product. This is how that works. This is not any different with the RTX series then the 900 series or 8000 series or etc. It's always worked this way. It will always work this way.


    Yes, and these companies who have to use investor/stockholders cash or etc. are either:

    A. New

    Or

    B. Involving their company in a project that is beyond their financial ability.

    Neither of these situations are good situations, but they are necessary. If you are new, you don't have the capital. If you want to bring your company to be bigger, you do bigger, more expensive projects.

    But again, any SUCCESSFUL company will want to get away from these situations as much as possible. They will want to make enough profit to be able to fund their next project, and that is absolutely, the right way to go about it. Once you involve investors and 3rd parties, it's never fully your project until they are paid back.

    Take game development as an example. How often on these forums to we blame publishers for bad games? Often, it is the publishers, rarely the developers. Typically the developers have great ideas, that the publisher decides to scrap as it's not whatever vision they have. So as a developer, why would you WANT to have to keep going back to publishers who continue to mess with and screw up your plans for a game? You wouldn't, you'd want to make enough profit to never have to see a publisher again, and typically, the customers are happy for this.

    This is no different. As a company, your one main goal SHOULD be to make enough profit to fund the next project and keep your company going without outside "help".

    To me it sounds like you want all companies to be non-profit and only make back what they put in. And if you're not, then my question is, what do you think "profit" is, and what exactly should said profit be used on, if not for the future products of said company?
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019

  16. Petr V

    Petr V Master Guru

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    Better 3500 shader units 3072 is no big deal for rtx 2080.
     
  17. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    you must be new to pc tech.

    the TU104 has a max possible shader count of 3072, which the 2080 did not have because of fabrication imperfections.
     
  18. Undying

    Undying Ancient Guru

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    Why is the 2060 8gb coming out if 6gb is enough? Rt effects are heavy on the vram and we all knew that. I would be pissed if this true and i bought an rtx card not long ago. I would feel even worse with a gtx turing card.
     
  19. H83

    H83 Ancient Guru

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    For me it makes sense to release this refreshed line up of cards because Nvidia has already milked the guys willing to pay those crazy prices and because AMD is (finally) going to introduce some much needed competition. I´m just waiting for their Super RTX 2080Ti Turbo Edition card...


    Why not, it´s easier than it seems...:D
     
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  20. RavenMaster

    RavenMaster Maha Guru

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    It will be interesting to see if these refresh cards have hdmi 2.1 since LG have started putting hdmi 2.1 sockets on their 2019 oleds and Nano Cell tv’s. Most tv’s don’t use DisplayPort so the new cards would need hdmi 2.1 for VRR/free-sync support and Nvidia would have to get onboard with that software-wise
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019

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