Rumor: Intel Raptor Lake and Sapphire Rapids processors will be available in October

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, May 27, 2022.

  1. Hilbert Hagedoorn

    Hilbert Hagedoorn Don Vito Corleone Staff Member

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  2. cucaulay malkin

    cucaulay malkin Ancient Guru

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    ddr4 for raptor lake
    this is really good

    I have 4133 c16 b-die memory,it would be a shame to swap it for ddr5,as it stands ddr5 is both expensive and needs really good sticks to show real advantage over ddr4 running +4000mhz in gear1 mode.
     
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  3. kanenas

    kanenas Master Guru

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  4. schilperoordbas

    schilperoordbas Member Guru

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    DDR4 capability is a huge advantage over AMD Zen 4's DDR5 requirement.
     
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  5. Kaarme

    Kaarme Ancient Guru

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    AMD's iGPU might seriously need the bandwidth to fulfill expectations. Nobody expects anything from Intel's iGPUs, so Intel doesn't have the same problem.
     
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  6. Valken

    Valken Ancient Guru

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    AMD showsoff 5.5+ GHZ Ryzen 4 and suddenly Intel pulls a magic hat on early processor release yet no availability on a planned GPU launch... uh huh...
     
  7. V3RT3X79

    V3RT3X79 Active Member

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    Raptor Lake FTW!!! Think Big!!
     
  8. coth

    coth Master Guru

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    I see no other options for AMD, but to backport Zen 4 to AM4, at least 1 CCD (6 and 8-core SKU) with specially designed north bridge for DDR4.

    Intel has been doing it in occasions in past.
     
  9. abula

    abula Master Guru

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    I wonder what will be the top turbo on the 13900k, specially with AMD making public their 5.5ghz boost.
     
  10. cucaulay malkin

    cucaulay malkin Ancient Guru

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    they need to unlock vcsaa for non-k skus,12th gen has it locked.
    the best skus for the money like 12400F or 12700F can't really take full advantage of top of the line ddr4.They reach 3600-3800 and that's it.
    not that it's gonna have a lot of impact,it's gonna be just as fast as standard ddr5.Still it's a limitation that wasn't there before. I can overclock my b-dies to the moon on 10700F.


    upload_2022-5-29_8-26-5.png upload_2022-5-29_8-26-27.png

    I guess it's gonna be unlocked on raptor when it's got zen4 to compete.
     

  11. TLD LARS

    TLD LARS Master Guru

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    I do not think that there is anything waiting to take over the TSMC 7nm 5000 series production, so they can just keep overlapping Zen 3 and 4 production for a year, they have done that multiple times.

    I do not know how difficult it would be to add DDR4 to Zen 4, but I would guess it would be much cheaper to just sell a 5000 series AM4 system, then to backport a new generation to a small market.
    If someone like Dell or IBM Lenovo wants 10.000 small, cheap and "good enough" performing desktops, AMD could just sell them laptop APUes until a cheaper ZEN 4 alternative is ready.

    AMD held back CPUes like 5700x, 5900, 5800, 5600, 5500 because there was no need for them, people could still buy 3000 series or already had something similar performing.
     
  12. coth

    coth Master Guru

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    Zen 3 just cannot compete with Golden Cove. So they have to bring something competitive to AM4.
     
  13. Kaarme

    Kaarme Ancient Guru

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    They did bring 5800X3D to AM4. It's faster, in gaming, than any Intel CPU. The next gen should be out in a few months, so it wouldn't make much sense to invest in AM4 anymore. Intel needed two gens to beat AMD Zen 3 if you count things as mercifully as Undying, so AMD wouldn't be sweating too much.
     
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  14. cucaulay malkin

    cucaulay malkin Ancient Guru

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    yes
    and now they lose to every sku except one.

    12400/f >5600
    12600k/f>5600x
    12700/f>5700x
    12700k/f > 5800x,overclocked it's at least equalling 5800x3d


    but I don't think they need to beat 12th gen on am4 or ddr4.
    they might as well do that on am5 and ddr5.
    it's just bad for the consumer that they won't offer ddr4 anymore.
    am4 had a great run and they might just leave it as is,tbh. It's done enough.Over 50% performance increase on the same platform.Compare that to intel.

    if they offered an 8/16 on am5 for a really good price,we're talking below 300eur,and ddr5 dropped way down by the time zen4 launches,they'd knock intel out of the park.
    That said,the cpus are probably gonna be expensive just like r5000,ddr5 is still gonna be overpriced,b650 will take longer to launch ...... I wouldn't get my hopes up too much for am5+r7000 to do anything to adl/rpl + b660 + ddr4 in terms of value.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2022
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  15. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    I see where you come from, but it looks bad to me. They should both fully commit to DDR5, otherwise it will never be accessible. I agree with AMD on that one.
     
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  16. cucaulay malkin

    cucaulay malkin Ancient Guru

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    I too agree with amd from the point of view of amd.
    I'd do the same if I was them.
    but I'm a consumer,and for me this requires spending extra money for a new technology that's worse value than what I'm using atm.

    see,intel makes ddr5 accesssible without requiring you to use it.
     
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  17. Undying

    Undying Ancient Guru

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    They will commit dont worry. Intel will make sure raptor lake performs better with ddr5 and persuade people going that route.
     
  18. TLD LARS

    TLD LARS Master Guru

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    The prices of 5800x makes it lign up with a 12700 no K, the Intel chip would still be faster but buying a new mainboard and cooler would ruin the comparison completely.
    If I had to buy a 12700k, MB and cooler it would be twice the price compared to the 5800x I just bought for my x370 MB
    Buying a new Intel socket now would just lead to a dead end next year anyway, the only upgrade would be a 13900kfc at something like 700$ with 0-15% performance boost over a 12700k in games.
    It could still be risky to buy a DDR4 12700 setup, because it is not known yet if 13 gen has DDR4 support, so it could lead to a even shorter socket life, then it is already.
     
  19. cucaulay malkin

    cucaulay malkin Ancient Guru

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    so 5800x requires no board then ?
    to me buying a 5800x would require a new board too.

    it only doesn't require a new board for people who have an am4 one already.And speaking from experience, those who got x370 with 1700x or so,got themselves a pretty weak deal imo.The cpus can't hold up in gaming, they're severely limited in memory frequency, and r5000 support is hit or miss.Yes,they have the massive upgrade option with 5800x,but it took five years,and only now does it have a decent enough pricetag.
    Do you really think someone who got a 8700K instead,and will now upgrade to raptor/alder on the same memory,got a worse deal ? I don't think so.
    For a workstation,with 5900x and 5950x,definitely yes.For gaming - no.
    8700k blew 1st gen ryzen away in gaming,12600kf is better than 5800x while cheaper and still takes ddr4. When it launched at 270eur, 5800x was still 400.

    Imo the absolute best deal for am4 is getting b550 and 5700x/5900x now.And in fact it's about the same in terms of value as 12700f/kf on b660 and ddr4.
    5900x is now selling a lot cheaper than 5800x was as recently as in january or february.
    The platform longevity is awesome,but it's not like there's always great option to use it.
    Like I wrote before,when 12600kf launched at 270eur, 5800x still cost +400eur. Not what I would call great upgrade path even if the platform allowed it.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2022
  20. TLD LARS

    TLD LARS Master Guru

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    I was just trying to explain that your comparison was wrong and especially if someone has a AM4 board.
    AMD has been best sellers for 3 years at least in europe, so there is a huge number of people who still has AM4.

    My x370 looks to run fine on 3600 mem, higher then 3800 does not make sense anyway, so they are mostly good enough.
    When I bought a 1700 the only alternative was 7700k, the 1700 held up a lot better then the 7700k did.
     
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