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Rumor: AMD allegedly to release seven NAVI GPUs but faces efficiency issues

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, May 6, 2019.

  1. DW75

    DW75 Master Guru

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    Don't forget as well that the RTX 2070 is using a TU106, which is a midrange part that should be in an XX60 level card. The GTX 1070, 1070 Ti, and 1080 are using GP104. The GTX 1160 and 1160 Ti are using a TU116, which should be used in an XX50 and XX50 Ti level card. Nvidia is completely ripping people off with Turing. The entire lineup is priced double what it should be.
     
  2. Mda400

    Mda400 Master Guru

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    And its totally legal because of the lack of competition.
     
  3. DW75

    DW75 Master Guru

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    Everyone knows why they did it. It still does not make it right. It is a slap to the face of consumers. The funny thing is though, Nvidia has now lost mindshare as a result of the pricing bullshit and lies with Turing. They pushed people too far this time, and now people are looking for an alternative. In the past, people only wanted AMD to compete so that they could buy Nvidia at lower prices. Now, many people want AMD to compete, because they are sick and tired of Nvidia, and they actually want to buy AMD. AMD does not even need to offer something in the highest end this round. All they need to do is come out with a card that matches either an RTX 2070 or RTX 2080, and have it cost way less. People looking to upgrade in the 400 US range will then dive right into Navi.
     
  4. Aura89

    Aura89 Ancient Guru

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    This is one thing i really wish would stop getting stated, or nvidia needs to just throw out their naming schemes to make it so it no longer gets stated.

    We, consumers, don't get to say what chip is high or low or mid-range about a chip. This is the developers job, not us, so for anyone to say otherwise: No, you don't get to.

    We, consumers, don't get a say on how much it cost to manufacture anything, or how much R&D goes into a product.

    We, consumers, don't get a say in what somethings naming is.

    We, consumers, don't get a say in how much something is being sold for, or at what tier. If we don't like something, don't buy it.

    The only thing we, consumers, get a say in is what we spend money on. That is it. Nothing else. To claim anything else on ANY company is pure nonsense. Buy it, or don't buy it, but stop claiming heresay and opinions as though they are fact.
     
    Yogi likes this.

  5. oxidized

    oxidized Member Guru

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    And it's not news...CPUs naming scheme, Chipset naming scheme, and now GPUs too, these might be legit at this point. Can you blame them?
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2019
  6. moeppel

    moeppel Member Guru

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    This isn't the sole reason for the naming scheme however. Beyond a potential jab at its competitors (for whatever that is worth) AMD wants to create a Ryzen 3000 series association and chances are they'll keep that scheme going down the line. Even if Navi will be another 'meh' I doubt that Zen 2 will be.

    Begs the question of course, if down the line, they can keep GPU and CPU releases in Sync.
     
  7. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    Actually it hadn't really occurred to me that they were trying to make it in-line with Ryzen. I thought they were trying to one-up Nvidia out of spite, much like they did with chipsets against Intel (or even the performance tiers for Ryzen).
     
  8. GamerNerves

    GamerNerves Active Member

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    Ah, this was pretty much what I expected. Power consumption levels are very good if true. 180 W for Radeon VII performance would be amazing and only for 430 €, which is pretty much RTX 2060 territory. Efficiency issues seem to mean that Navi 20 chip manufacturing process has some problems and need to be delayed, which is sadly pretty crucial and will hurt a lot when Nvidia gets their 7 nm refresh out before Navi 20.

    Most customers are interested in Navi 10 and for 330 € they get a beast of a card, most likely upgrading from GTX 1060 6 Gb. The performance bump is very big and cannot be understated. This is exactly where Navi excels and we truly see a major performance bumb in the whole GPU market relatively to price. I'm not saying Nvidia's products are bad, since RTX 2060 is a pretty decent deal too. It offers GTX 1080 performance for just under 400 €, which is pretty great, since at the release of Turing, GTX 1080 still costed around 600 €. Even Nvidia has been offering more performance for the same price, while performance requirements of video games have been quite stagnant. Without any strong competition, Nvidia's state in the market has been somewhat applausible.

    About expectations: People live in the past as always, expecting performance bumbs like in the 90's. In the 90's you got big uplifts for sure, but your graphic card was also expensive, aged very fast and couldn't always even support all the APIs available. Today's market is much more consumer friendly and even though we don't see quick performance bumps, games still tend to look prettier and prettier every day. Only explanation for this is the adoption of modern APIs and improving optimization effort, like with every console generation, which mirrors the benefits straight into PC gaming.

    I do not miss anything about 90's nor the first decade. In the first decade we got pretty decent deals and upgrades, if you compare the pace of progress to now, but still current day wins in consumer friendliness. Your high end (albeit expensive) graphic card will carry you even through a whole console generation pretty comfortably and yet there are no API compatibility issues or any nonsense like that. Only thing yet to improve drastically is power consumption. Indeed, power consumption has pretty much risen from the past and is the next big thing to solve. When a flagship GPU consumes only 150 W and can play games on the highest settings at high resolution, then we are truly at the next phase.

    Remember now: Moore's law is dead, wild API jungle is gone, console generations are not as long as before and they involve major refreshes, available GPU power is more than needed for the common resolutions 1080p and 1440p, surrounding climate is for going green and modern APIs extract much extra performance from new and old GPUs. We cannot always expect the same outcome year after year, getting X % of more performance for Y price. On a forum like this people should better acknowledge the challenges of modern GPU development, shifting market and how consoles affect the game industry.

    Under this light, when you have chewed all this, Navi line-up is very impressive, offering high end performance for a very low price and very reasonable power consumption level. Even owners of GTX 1080 have room to upgrade over GTX 1080 Ti level of performance, which doesn't sound too bad to me at all. Add FineWine on top (maturing Radeon drivers) and you will yield great performance in the long run. I am strongly considering buying the Navi product that matches RTX 2070, since power consumption seems to be only slightly higher than in my current GTX 1070. These days, I'm not really interested or even able to invest more than that sweet spot 300 € on a GPU.

    I expect impressive release for the majority of people. Many customers are highly willing to upgrade GPU now. Only concern is the 7 nm Turing refresh, which will most likely crush Navi 20 completely. Those who are willing to pay a high price will get even more powerful solutions from Nvidia, but that market segment has never excited me the least. I do not wish to pay any more for my GPU than is sufficient for my needs.
     
    Undying likes this.
  9. tunejunky

    tunejunky Master Guru

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    this is just adored.tv clickbait
    and seven models is a bit much - at first blush, but think about it a moment and it makes sense in the marketplace.
    imho, i have a grain of salt the size of Salt Lake City re: pricing and performance.

    what i do know is new architecture on a new process is hard work, delays should be expected. Ryzen has the great good fortune to only be refined, not re-engineered at 7nm.
    and if you wondered why Radeon VII, that's why - the ramp up to new architecture is a lot harder than a process shrink.
     
  10. MonstroMart

    MonstroMart Master Guru

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    Well if consumer don't spend money on a product then the manufacturer wont have any choice to change the way it is doing things so in the end the consumers got a say. Right now i'm speaking with my wallet and the 2xxx lineup is the first lineup from nVidia i wont buy since the 6xx. The 2070 was just not worth it at launch.. It was basically a 1080 for the price of a 1080. As simple as that. If all 1xxxx owners would do the same as me nVidia would not have any choice but to adjust.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2019

  11. Aura89

    Aura89 Ancient Guru

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    If you read the post, you would have noted that is the only say we have, and that it was stated as such.

    If enough people do not buy a product and they decide to change more to our liking and change things we don't have a say it, great, but it's still not our say, it's still their say to do so. We can not force companies to do as we want, and we can not force companies to name things as we want simply to appease our minds inability to change with the times.
     
  12. Arbie

    Arbie Member Guru

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    Time to get in a gratuitous slam at AdoredTV, right?

    His video title is "Analyzing Navi - Part 2". The picture is simply the Navi logo. It's the opposite of clickbait. Guess you can't tell the difference. Or just want to hate.

    And where do you get off slinging mud at him? I'd like to know what Youtuber is working harder to bring us the latest tech info with sincere and thoughtful analysis - minus personal intrusion, histrionics, grandstanding etc etc. Names, please? I keep asking for this but the big-mouths never come up with even one.
     
  13. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    Lol
     
  14. cowie

    cowie Ancient Guru

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    navi is r vii with 180w for 450

    stop with your silly tricks rabbit the rumored news is not too exciting..
    adick.tv is bs news made up from is ass

    oh and here we go to defend your lover

    but but he was right about....
    he was soooooooo off on Polaris it was not funny so step off HIS high horse

    internet fucking plagiarism and opinion is all
     
  15. Aura89

    Aura89 Ancient Guru

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    You drunk?
     

  16. Clawedge

    Clawedge Ancient Guru

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    Oh....well this thread is turning into a stormy situation.

    Now I also have to add something important to this, and that is that I am keeping out of this.
     
  17. tunejunky

    tunejunky Master Guru

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    really?

    what are you imbibing? i didn't "sling mud" at anyone. and clickbait is clickbait.
    "analyzing" an unreleased product is exactly clickbait.
     
  18. vbetts

    vbetts Don Vincenzo Staff Member

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    You are AdoredTV in disguise?

    No more off topic like this please.
     
  19. Mundosold

    Mundosold Active Member

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    Everyone does it. Including AMD. Yeah AMD never charged $1000+ for a GPU but they never held such a massive lead like that either..
    But when AMD had a massive lead over Intel (Athlon 64 days), they were charging $1000+ for their Athlon 64 FX just like the Pentium 4 Extreme Editions had cost.

    Video Cards are not an item critical to human survival. There really is nothing wrong with Nvidia charging as much as they want or releasing GPUs called a tier more than what they'd otherwise be when they are far ahead.
     
  20. Aura89

    Aura89 Ancient Guru

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    Um, radeon pro duo ($1500),
    Radeon
    R9 295X2 ($1500),
    Radeon
    HD 8990 ($1000) and Radeon HD 7990 ($1000) would like to have a word. There are others as well.
     

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