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Rumor: AMD allegedly to release seven NAVI GPUs but faces efficiency issues

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, May 6, 2019.

  1. vMax1965

    vMax1965 Member

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    I have to admit I find this leak very odd indeed and as to price gouging fiasco with the RTX 2080, the same can be said for the launch price of the Vega 7 at $699! As to the other current GPU's, AMD can only compete on price. What concerns me is the pricing as I just cannot see any business sense why AMD would be willing to lose money. They will price according to the competition as proved by Vega 7 already. And it is important to understand that AMD is a business and have to drive profitability especially on the GPU side where they need to up there margins and there customers will pay the price so long as they are getting parity or better against Nvidia.

    The real worry for AMD is Nvidia 7nm! AMD need a decent launch in 2019 as the GTX 1080Ti at 16nm can hold it's own against the 7nm Vega 7 right now! Nvidia's 7nm launch will be primed to drive not only performance but efficiency when the Turing respin drops to 7nm. The Hype really worries me as we do need a strong AMD GPU to compete with Nvidia but sometimes I read these stories and I just wonder how bad the let down will be if they keep hyping to the clouds..
     
  2. Reddoguk

    Reddoguk Ancient Guru

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    I like the 3080 XT. Good bang for buck if those prices are right.
     
  3. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    You mean Radeon 7 (as opposed to Vega 7)? It's launch price was so high because it's basically just a binned workstation GPU with a lot of very expensive memory. I'm sure the price point wasn't due to matching Nvidia's performance, but because they needed to cover the cost of the HBM. I'm confident that if they gave it 8GB of GDDR5/6, it would've been $200-300 cheaper (at which point, it would have probably sold pretty well since it'd basically be a 2080 without RTX).
     
  4. EspHack

    EspHack Ancient Guru

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    430$ for a 2080 equivalent seems mighty good, maybe not as crazy as some think, vega VII is like 300$ worth of vram so this thing using GDDR6 and being a bit more efficient should do the trick, provided AMD expects no profit
     

  5. Nima V

    Nima V Active Member

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    AMD will never abandon GCN architecture. these days most games are optimized for consoles aka GCN architecture and because of that AMD is enjoying a huge advantage over Nvidia specially on games that run on low level APIs (DX12, Vulkan). by leaving GCN, AMD must give up on this free privilege which they will never do. just check out how older games from last gen consoles or games that are not on consoles run on GCN compare to Nvidia equivalent GPUs. most of the times they can't even compete.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
  6. FrostNixon

    FrostNixon Member Guru

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    My biggest concern right now is that there is a large chance we don't get navi for Q3. Let's hope at least Zen 2 is not delayed and launches in Q2.
     
  7. slicer

    slicer Active Member

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    True!
    16GB of HBM2 already costs 320 euros by itself! While 16GB of gddr6 cost half of that. Altough with Radeon Vega 7, AMD had no choice but to use the HBM2 with 16GB as they had those laying around from Instinct leftovers.
    Navi is basically 7nm improved Vega chip with gddr6 instead of HBM2. It has plusses and minuses, if they would have sticked with HBM, the TDP would be better as HBM uses less power, but it is pricy and it would have increased the price. And mainstream is very pirce sensitive area, so they HAD to use gddr6 as their only option. High end is definetly different matter, there you can have higher margins and can use HBM2/HBM3 memory. TDP is lower and you can clock higher. So I bet that Navi20 is HBM2/3 memory card.
     
  8. vMax1965

    vMax1965 Member

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    The only problem I have with this why would AMD sell a GPU that performs like the RTX 2080 for $200 to $300 less...when they can will sell it at or near the Nvidia price because they know the customers will pay....You final point on 'no profit' is key....they are a business with shareholders who expect a profit!!!
     
  9. vMax1965

    vMax1965 Member

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    If they had of used the cheaper GDDR6 the Vega7 would have been even slower than the RTX 2080...
     
  10. slicer

    slicer Active Member

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    Because RTX2080 is overpriced as frack!
    It is high midrange card that should be valued more like 499 usd.
     
    carnivore likes this.

  11. vMax1965

    vMax1965 Member

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    You won't get an argument form me on the price...agreed but they still went and sold there RTX 2080 competitor at $699 and even if the HBM cost more, they had to use it otherwise the performance would have been worse! This cannot be put at Nvidia's door but AMD's for not competing..

    For me and I have said this before, we need competition desperately and at the moment only AMD can provide it and as we have not had any competition, Nvidia have had the field to themselves and thus have controlled the prices to suit...When AMD can launch a competitor to Nvidia on performance and efficiency, then we will finally have competition but please be under no illusion, AMD are a business and will charge accordingly.
     
  12. TLD LARS

    TLD LARS Active Member

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    I dont understand the chart.
    Vega 64
    Vega 64 + 10%
    GTX2070
    It indicates that GTX2070 is around 20% faster then a Vega 64, but tests show that they are closer in many modern games.
     
    Undying likes this.
  13. Kaarme

    Kaarme Ancient Guru

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    It's the same for everything. When people get too thrilled about anything beforehand, they will be ultimately disappointed, no matter what it is, a video card or an ice cream. AMD, Nvidia, and Intel can't do anything about it. It'd be pretty hard to release a product that would be better than what the most froth-mouthed fans (or anti-fans) are "expecting". I guess if RTX cards had been cheaper, the RT had actually worked without a crazy fps impact, and there had been a dozen fully compatible games available right off the bat, then the RTX launch would have lived up to most of the hype.
     
  14. waltc3

    waltc3 Master Guru

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    Assuming there is any truth to these rumors, I don't think it's at all bad news--just the sort of thing every IHV goes through when releasing new architectures--especially when transitioning to a new process node simultaneously. Navi may be "GCN" technically, but I think that is about all that will be similar to preceding GCN architecture releases. I think they will release the mid-range NAVI GPUs first, of course, because the < $300 level is where the bulk of the money is, congruent with volumes shipped. It will mirror the launch of the RX-480 in that regard. I would expect the initial < $300 price-range release to pretty much equal the performance of an RX-590 + 50%-75% now--that may be a bit optimistic, of course. Or pessimistic, as the case may be...;) I would expect the more powerful, costly GPUs to come later--launching at the end of the year for X-mas, or in 1Q 2020.
     
    vMax1965 likes this.
  15. vMax1965

    vMax1965 Member

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    I cannot argue with your point...It's spot on.
     

  16. kings

    kings Active Member

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    Yes, cheaper, but also would not have RTX 2080 performance. It would be a little better than a Vega 64.

    Radeon VII has 4 less CUs than Vega 64 and achieves its performance as a result of aggressive clocks (probably outside of the conforte zone for efficiency) and the insane bandwidth. If you cut memory bandwidth to half or near that, performance would drop significantly!
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
  17. slicer

    slicer Active Member

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    Point is. Nvidia is not selling those RTX2080 cards eniough. Most buy RTX2070s. And even RTX2080Ti's. So basically RTX2080 is quite redundant at that price range. Thats why also AMD sales for Radeon VII are low at that price.

    In this latest video, Steve goes over the precentage of different tier cards that was sold, from both Nvidia and AMD side.


    As you can see the market is yearning for the card that is priced at the midrange and performs.
    Saying that, RTX2070 is even more pointless card at current price. I would rather buy RTX2060... which is also overpriced...
     
  18. Aura89

    Aura89 Ancient Guru

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    Radeon 7....vega 7 isnt a thing, and if it was, it would be an iGPU.

    If you want to call it by vega, instead of radeon, then call it vega 20. It is either radeon 7, or vega 20, never vega 7. Yes, this is important.
     
  19. Corbus

    Corbus Ancient Guru

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    These might be really neat to watercool.
     
  20. Mundosold

    Mundosold Active Member

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    They already did that with the Radeon VII. 1080Ti (2080) performance for $700. But I can't imagine it has been selling well. 2080 gives you RTX (which even though it isn't what it was hyped to be, is better than nothing) and is more power efficient. And the 1080 Ti launched at $700 years ago!

    Right now there is a big untapped market of people with a GTX 1070, 1070Ti, or 1080 looking for an upgrade around $400-500. I am one of them. The 1070/1080 is almost 3 years old now..and those were $400/500 at launch, it is kind of crazy that even today the best you can get for $500 is an RTX 2070 which is not even much of an upgrade over the 1080! Nvidia has been milking it hard.

    If AMD can give us 1080 TI performance at $400-500, we'd FINALLY have a real upgrade path. The only question is can they do it? Even if they only break even, the mindshare is worth it because right now, AMD doesn't have a good public image of their GPUs and that alone lowers how much people are willing to pay. Get people lining up to buy 2080 performance at $399 and that would change.

    Sadly even with this rumor, only the mid-range cards will be launching at first, but anything to create downward pressure on GPU prices is a good thing.
     
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