RTX 3060 Ti or Denon AVR-S960h?: 10-bit color issue

Discussion in 'The HTPC, HDTV & Ultra High Definition section' started by Mda400, Dec 27, 2020.

  1. Mda400

    Mda400 Master Guru

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    At this point, you would seem to be correct. But if they figured to 'wash their hands' of the issue and I can still reproduce it, they didn't do a very good job of pulling the blinders over my eyes. It's false advertisement at this point until they find a fix.

    Unless I were to disable the internal speakers of the display when the PC is directly connected to it, the input latency is actually lower to me when using the AVR to the TV's HDMI ARC port which disables the internal TV speakers anyways. Even using 8-bit over 10-bit to me, produces lower input latency.

    I have the AVR set to Pure Direct mode, which bypasses all signal (audio and video) processing.

    I have used the 2 seperate cable method in the past from the PC and it caused some issues with certain programs and the different display settings between the 2 connections, which is why i have been waiting for HDMI to support 4k above 60hz full chroma RGB through one connection.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2021
  2. PPC

    PPC Member Guru

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    There is no way a source->repeater(AVR)->display will result in less latency than source->display, no way whatsoever, that is just not possible no matter on any "pure direct" modes you are using or eliminating processing. Even active adapters will add to latency, cable length too. Is it much latency? No, most likely not. Is it going to "matter", that purely depends on you and your needs. This is physics and there is no way around it.

    I also use AVR for sound output from PC with 2 cable setup since my Onkyo also has issues with passthru and this is how its set up. There is a HDMI 2.1 port from GPU with a certified cable to HDMI 2.1 port on the tv and it does 4k/120/10bit flawlessly. It also carries sound to the TV speakers which are set as default sound device in windows when i dont need AVR full on sound (AVR turned off). Another cable is actually DP->HDMI 1.4 passive cable adapter which is there just for sound so it doesnt need to be anything special, it goes from DP on GPU to HDMI on AVR. When i turn on the AVR it will be detected by windows as a separate monitor and automatically become the default sound device so the sound will only go thru AVR at this point while video goes thru both. If the TV is set as default display device (as it is) this transition (turning on AVR) is seamless. When AVR is turned off, again the TV becomes default sound device and sound only plays thru it, no need to manually do anything.

    The only issue i have is if it happens so that i turn off the TV first then AVR becomes default display device and since its lower resolution (1080p bound since HDMI 1.4) it might f-up the desktop windows sizes etc. but in time i learned not to do so. Also its not that big of a deal to resize em, while it is a bother, YMMV. I do not watch classical TV (cable box) so there is 0 need for me to transfer anything over ARC/eARC from the TV to AVR but if i wanted to do so i'd just use another cable and plug it into another channel on AVR, i tried this for experimentation and it worked. If you have a console then you might want this, i hate consoles from bottom of my heart so... yeah. Last time i turned on the cable box was when the epidemic started to hear an announcement about curfew and i didnt really need AVR sound for that. ;)

    Now back to the actual problem with the issue persisting. Sure, it is "false advertising" as you say but the best you'll get there is you'll get your money back for the AVR and go buy another which will have about the same issue (or a slightly different one) so youre borked one way or another. Only option is to "pray" that the issue is actually in the firmware and that it will be addressed later on with an update but if its an issue in the chipset then there is no hope. You could try another brand/model of AVR but in my experience they are all faulty in some way when you push it to the limit of the "spec", either cutting out, giving issues like yours, reseting resolution every single time you turn it on, etc... If you have the patience to connect everything, setup and test in return period you might do that, might get lucky with a certain model/brand, YMMV. But pressing the service to "fix" your unit will not do anything since they cant do it, they will replace your board X times and call it a day and ultimately will offer a refund so might as well save yourself the hassle and maybe try another model.

    What i personally would do is sit on that AVR until 8k/120 ones come out then go press the service/store/manufacturer for a refund since yours cant do what they say it should do and request a refund... when 8k/120 ones come out they most likely wont have problem with 4k/120/10bit but if at that point you want 8k/120... yeah. :D
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2021
  3. Mda400

    Mda400 Master Guru

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    If I disable audio to the internal TV speakers (by putting it on Optical output or analog headphone jack for example), set any adjustments like audio delay to bypass the internal processing of the TV's sound processor, on the CX OLED and just have video to it directly from the GPU's HDMI 2.1 port, it has lesser delay to me than going through the AVR.

    But the point of this setup is to have great audio as well and that's why i still passthrough the AVR.

    I did it this way too, when i first tried 4K/60hz with a GTX 980 by HDMI 2.0 to an LG 4k TV (can't remember model, its at my father's house) and DVI to HDMI adapter to my old LG LHB326 sound system (since the receiver doesn't support HDMI 2.0 pass-through).

    I did not like the fact i had to re-size windows often due to the difference in display resolution between the two connections. I had troubles with certain programs defaulting to the connection that had sound active on it (which was usually the AVR). It was at that point i sighed and just waited 6 more years for this period to finally come around.

    I sometimes watch hulu, netflix, disney+ or amazon prime video with the Mrs. on the TV as well so I utilize multiple times a month, the ARC/eARC port from the TV to the AVR.

    It certainly looks that way right now and is probably what i'll be doing if nothing comes along within the remaining1 year of warranty this AVR has..

    At least it gives me 4k/120hz 8-bit RGB with VRR :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2021
  4. PPC

    PPC Member Guru

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    Since i'm using this setup for as long as you have (since 2015.) i can tell you that problem was more pronounced back then, havent had a single app open on anything but a primary display for last couple of years, it has actually been addressed. Try the 2 cable approach again, see what happens, you might be surprised, it works way better now in that regard. Only if you turn off the tv and AVR becomes main (and only) display it will mess with resolution and windows sizes but then just dont do that. ;)
     

  5. bleejean

    bleejean New Member

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    Hey Mda400, just came upon this thread again today after doing another Google search for this issue to see if any progress had been made. That sucks that you sent in your receiver and the problem still wasn't fixed. I have been using the two cable method PPC recommends all this time and it has been working fine for me but it is still annoying that I need to turn the TV and receiver off and on separately and that I paid for a cutting edge receiver but am not even using it's most notable feature!

    Since they are not doing anything for you I don't expect to have any luck sending mine in either. Maybe if I wait until near the very end of my warranty (2 years) I will get lucky and there will be a new model and I can convince Best Buy to let me exchange for the new one somehow.
     
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  6. Mda400

    Mda400 Master Guru

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    Kind of what i'm hoping for too at this point.

    Onkyo and Pioneer also have 8k receivers out now, but only the Onkyo TX-NR5100 would be in my price range and it only carries 24gbps HDMI 2.1 ports looking at the manual. Yamaha hasn't received their HDMI 2.1 updates to their AVR's yet as far as I can tell.

    Going to see what Denon does in the next year before I try selling this for a unit that works with 10-bit RGB at 4k/120hz.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2021

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