RTSS/NVidiaV3 FrameRateLimiter causing Engine Rendering Artifacts in RDR2

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by SerjRozov, Apr 17, 2021.

  1. Shadowdane

    Shadowdane Maha Guru

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    Gotcha yah I've had pieces of clothes disappear for ~1 frame when you swap clothes in the wardrobe but never in regular gameplay. And I haven't seen the vertexes explode there or when skinning animals. I guess it can be more frequent on some GPUs models than others? I haven't really tried playing much without a FPS limiter so I thought it was just a game bug.
     
  2. Mineria

    Mineria Ancient Guru

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    Nah. doesn't happen on one GPU model than another.
    All you have to do is notice it and then keep forcing it to happen until you turn blue in the face and keep complaining about it to the wrong people, instead of just just playing and completing the game.
    Rockstar are the only ones who can solve this, question is if they can be bothered to since the majority of people just play trough the game regardless of this issue.


    Also I believe to archive the best end result, is to set the limit is 2-3 fps below the monitors set refresh rate?
    Which would be 72-73fps for a monitor set to 75Hz.
    If your card can't push 75fps limiting makes no sense unless you can lower the refresh rate to as example 60Hz in which case the limit should be around 58fps.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2021
  3. SerjRozov

    SerjRozov Active Member

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    I did saw at least 4 times these (vertices explode) black line glitches (not just clothes dissapear in stomach area) right after you've changed limit to 80 and entered wardrobe again, replayed that sequence maybe 5 times or so and it was there at same frames each time, also can see it at 0.25 yt speed, can record it (any fast tip what setting should i tinker in nvcpl or AB to make my video record of your video record lol a little bit brighter though?)

    Edit:
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2021
  4. SerjRozov

    SerjRozov Active Member

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    you are a very kind person, no doubt, thank you for all your advices, good bye
     

  5. SerjRozov

    SerjRozov Active Member

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    Anyway, there should be an end up conclusion of some sort, then the topic can be closed or whatever.

    Right at this moment there's no such thing, Unwinder haven't said anything particular meaning that buying a new monitor probably won't even fix a thing, then what, like MAYBE my pascal card that I've bought for a $#!+ ton of money 4 years ago ain't already capable for artifact free gaming lol maybe i should buy 3080 right? Or maybe R* just hadn't got in mind ANY FRL feature when they were porting their masterpiece on pc? That's kind of an only solid argument tbh atm
    But what I do know for certain that turning off frl fixing the issue, but not using it, is not an option anymore.

    On page 1 of this thread, @Cave Waverider even saying that the whole RTSS (not just frl) making those flickers on his system, but there's no reaction to it.

    I'm ok with people coming and saying that like just play the game and be done with it, thats understandable, but I don't share it, everybody do what they want and for as long as they want, especially if they paid for it. I'm playing, like since last major sentence i've advanced from 50 to 73% of the game, the issue is not game breaking by any means, and I'm not obsessed with it, but its just there lol almost like rtx

    Just quick note: @Shadowdane on page 1 i had explicitly explained how i did troubleshoot if that those arent graphical artifacts caused by xtreme oc\undervolting or else, in a few words thats not an issue. And thanks for all your testing, I really appreciate it.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2021
  6. Mineria

    Mineria Ancient Guru

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    Buying another monitor/gpu will most probably not fix the artifacts you see in RDR2 when using frl, if Rockstar had frl in their mind they would have implemented it into game, since from my experience that is the way it works the best and tbh. I wish every game developer would do so.
    Apart from that, may I ask why you need to frl the game?
    Only for temps? 72C is not a lot with stock cooling.
    You can lower some gpu intensive settings to get temps down too, like shadows, AO and such beside trying 60HZ + V-Sync + G-Sync (or forcing compatible mode).
    Just slapped a huge heatsink on my card with 2*120mm fans connected to the card, as cool as a 240 AIO while gaming, 38-45C, got to check if the mobos pump headers can read GPU temps so I don't have to rely on any software.

    Sure, everybody can do as they want, but also have to face it when belittling an author of a free tool guru's have been using for years when he states that it is not the tool that is the culprit.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2021
  7. SerjRozov

    SerjRozov Active Member

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    Well, I don't actually think so, at least Shadowdane with his 170Hz display doesn't see it while still playing at so called "lower framerate" 60fps lock.
    It's not mostly from your experience but rather some basic knowledge from Battlenonsence yt channel. But if thats true and game built-in frl feature is better, then I agree with you, i would've also liked it.

    Why do i need frl in game? probably bcoz of gsync?
    My card running 62C at max in demanding titles like rdr2, re2-3 remake, games like um idk warframe I haven't seen it goes higher than 48-50C, AB doing great job with it. 72C i find kinda too much.
    I don't need to lower settings and what not, I'm not struggling with performance or something, i have 75hz display in rdr2 i'd experienced some dips below 75fps, so I just figured that at my graphic settings (which are for the most part are based on HWUnboxed setup, with some minor tinkering for my liking) I'm capable to maintain 65fps almost all the time, it means that I don't experience frametime fluctuations between 75-65fps, which leads me to steady, more than comfortable\responsive gameplay, thats it.

    As what about your last sentence, well it depends on an angle of view. And in that instance i disagree with you. Yes, it's maybe R* fault indeed, but when I turn off frl it's not. lol
     
  8. Mineria

    Mineria Ancient Guru

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    It's still there in Shadowdane's video though?

    As for in-game frl, Blurbusters and others did some intense testing with all kind of frl with indept data that explains why, conclusion is that in-game frl works the best, so that is not even up for discussion.
    A few game engines got frl linked to their v-sync setting as well, so that is one option more to keep in mind.

    What I meant with lowering some GPU intensive settings was merely biased around temperatures and not FPS, some game engines push the GPU load hard with specific settings, which results in increased temperatures.
    I can relate to capping framerates to keep them low, but I still got a few games on my list where I reduce the most intense load by turning a few things down that I can live without, just to reduce maximum temperatures, not because the GPU can't take those temperatures but to have lower fan speeds for less noise.

    As for RDR2, I don't have the game on PC, but from what people write the games launch has been almost as bulky as CP2077's.
    Since the game engine itself craps out over any kind of frl the issue can only be solved by Rockstar, hence why it is frustrating for Alex when someone adds him into something he can not do a thing about, as your in on yourself, when any kind of the frl you tried is turned off there is no issue.
    I got one Vulcan based game where I found setting max frl has issues but setting background frl (via NVCPL) did the trick, probably because it runs in borderless mode, not sure if that will work for RDR2, maybe worth a shot.
    Another option you could try, NvidiaInspector, it has one or two different frl settings, maybe one of those will work better with that engine, although I doubt it.
    Reminds me about one more thing, when you install/update Nvidia drivers AIB should be turned off throughout the whole procedure, this goes for all GPU tweak utilities, seen some strange stuff happening with mainly all such tools when a driver is updated/installed with them running in the background.
     
  9. Shadowdane

    Shadowdane Maha Guru

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    Yah i just did a bunch of testing it's clearly something with the game's engine. It actually happens in both Vulkan & DX12 when using an external limiter. So it's not related to Vulkan like originally thought. The same problems happen if you just use the Nvidia FPS Limiter and don't have RTSS running at all. The problem doesn't happen at all if you use the Half Vsync option in-game which I tried with 120Hz using the half option to force it to 60fps. Same goes for using 144Hz to force it to 72fps. It doesn't quite look as smooth as RTSS but it does avoid the weird problem with vertexes going nuts. Or just using 60Hz in-game with regular Vsync if your looking to hit that flat 60fps target.

    Now that I think about it I'm pretty sure Nvidia Inspector has a half-vsync option as well. Possibly that might be a better option than the Rockstar implemented version.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2021
  10. Smough

    Smough Master Guru

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    Once you install a newer version of Vulkan, you can't rollback, the installer itself gives you a message at the end "will not be replaced with blah blah" if you installed a newer version, so if you know how to rollback, I'd like to know.
     

  11. Mineria

    Mineria Ancient Guru

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    Can't uninstall via Windows Control Panel?
    As I recall DDU can remove the Vulkan runtime libraries as well, but I think that requires a driver reinstall.
     
  12. SerjRozov

    SerjRozov Active Member

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    Yes, it does happen in both Vulkan and DX12 APIs, but bcoz I couldn't reproduce wardrobe\stables\skinning glitch in DX12 with 100% reproducibility I leaved the title as it is. In DX12 vertex explosion has a sporadic behaviour for me, mostly random flashes in the background like on those other folk vids (though background flickers are also present in Vulkan, not so frequent, but still), but the roots of this issue are the same, so.

    Unfortunately, I can't afford myself to try out half-sync method for now bcoz I won't stand ~37,5fps experience lol neither original Vsync experience, and tbh for me personally 60fps target isn't as smooth as 65, though I can't really tell the difference between 75 and 65, so untill I get my hands on some 170hz ips panel I'll stick to the artifact-experience i guess ffs.

    I want to specify though, have you been able to see those black vertexes flickers or not? Bcoz for me it stayed unclear, I thought you just couldn't see it bcoz of a higher refresh rate monitor? I thought you could only saw how clothing elements disappear, no?
     
  13. Smough

    Smough Master Guru

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    Is not in control panel but rather in Windows folder and System32, it gets installed deep within the O.S and not like a program you can install or unistall. I may try to use DDU and test.
     
  14. Mineria

    Mineria Ancient Guru

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    Yeah, the regular runtime, was not sure if you where using the SDK since you mentioned installing a newer version of Vulkan, in which case there is the option to uninstall, hmmm, maybe installing the latest SDK on top and then uninstalling it can remove it.
     
  15. DaRkL3AD3R

    DaRkL3AD3R Active Member

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    Hey by the way @SerjRozov the reason I run 30 fps limiter in RDR2 on my 7700k and 1080 Ti is because I play with a controller and prefer to play at 1440p Ultra graphics with no framerate fluctuations. To me this is more appealing than what it takes to lock 60 fps, which is lowest possible settings.
     

  16. SerjRozov

    SerjRozov Active Member

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    Well, ok if you say so.
     

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