RTSS/NVidiaV3 FrameRateLimiter causing Engine Rendering Artifacts in RDR2

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by SerjRozov, Apr 17, 2021.

  1. SerjRozov

    SerjRozov Active Member

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    Hello, again.
    So, I actually figured what's the cause of my artifact-like flickering issue with Rdr2 (single player) on Vulkan, but now I'm not really sure if I like it or not lol.

    System:
    Win10Pro 20h2
    Nv driver 465.89
    Rtss ver. 7.3.0
    Afterburner ver. 4.6.2
    monitor: AOC G2260VWQ6 freesync 75hz* via DP
    i7 6700k
    gtx 1080
    ddr4 3200
    __________________________________________
    In these two runs I haven't changed any ingame settings or nvcpl except one - frame rate limiter.

    V-sync On
    G-sync compatible On
    Rtss or* NV v3 frame rate limiters (only used one of them at the time) are capped at 65 (also tried values from 60-75) results in:


    V-sync On
    G-sync compatible On
    Both limiters are off


    C'mon guys got any ideas except buying a new monitor lol? seriously i understand that it's just gsync compatible but isn't there any solution to it?
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
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  2. AsiJu

    AsiJu Ancient Guru

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    If you can record the flickering it's not caused by monitor.

    Try a different driver and disable hardware accelerated gpu scheduling if enabled, to begin with.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
  3. SerjRozov

    SerjRozov Active Member

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    Hi.
    Didn't knew that, well thats good I guess. Tried disabling Hags before but did it again just to be sure, its the same.

    Ok, so I'll extend on what I've tried so far:

    This issue persists for me in this particular game since Win10 2004 when I've started playing it in december 2020 now I'm on Win10 20h2.

    Tried drivers from 446.14 to 466.11.



    Thats on Vulkan, like 100% reproducible in any wardrobe and stables



    Same flickers occur also when skinning animals but rarely, and even more rarely I notice some black flickering in the background like on this guys videos




    Other than that it's minor issue for me on Vulkan, it's pretty playable, but I kept searching for a fix until I tried disabling Rtss frame rate limiter.

    Well, not exactly like that, I did opened a ticket at R* sc, they asked me to send them msinfo and dx.logs then after it this guy from support adviced me to delete msi afterburner lol bcuz they do not support it and to reinstall the game
    [​IMG]

    I was like yeah sure lol
    But then I actually realised that I only did tried downclocking core\mem clocks but not completely turning off MSI AB since I use it for about 4 years for downvolting+mem oc+aggressive fan curve (fan stop at 40C and 50% at 50C and 100% at 73C so I barelly see 62C at demanding titles)

    So yeah I just turned off AB and launched the game - no flickers, I was like wtf, then I turned on AB (cuz fck 72C without fan curve, though it actually kept voltage at 0.925V and not uped it to 1.063V as it is in stock - forgot to say that I launched HWinfo after turning off AB) and decided just to leave Rtss Application Detection Level at None (no frame rate limit) and that's how I bumped into it, no more flickers.

    Then I've tried NV v3 limiter and yep the flickering returned.
    That's it. Going to close the ticket near to the weekend.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
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  4. AsiJu

    AsiJu Ancient Guru

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    Interesting.

    Now that you mentioned, I realized I see similar flickers in Doom Eternal, also Vulkan.

    There's one spot where it's particularly noticeable, I'll try w/o framerate limiter too.

    EDIT: for me the flickers remain regardless of RTSS / NV limiter being used or not.
    Disabling app detection or even uninstalling RTSS made no difference either.

    Using 460.97 and also Gsync compatible monitor, but I doubt it's related to display technology even so.

    If you happen to own Doom Eternal and DLC 2, the spot I'm talking about is right at the beginning of Reclaimed Earth.
    Look at the ARC building in the distance just as you spawn and move camera left and right or move left to right.

    To me it looks like it has something to do with level of detail transition or similar, as in when you're just at the threshold the game can't decide whether it should display more detail or not and so it looks like flicker as it goes back and forth.

    As in: if I move closer to the building, no more flickers but instead the higher detail persists.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021

  5. AsiJu

    AsiJu Ancient Guru

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  6. SerjRozov

    SerjRozov Active Member

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    Yeah, it looks similar, cuz when I stop dragging mouse pointer on outfits flickers also stops, makes me think if I was playing on gamepad would have I seen it?
    Those flickers on the floor looks like alpha channels in textures turning on\off though it's just a thought.

    Any way, it could be anything with rendering or else, too bad that turning off Rtss or V3 has no impact on your issue with Doom, thats unfortunate, but it may be different issues we experiencing.
    There're lots of people with "flicker" issues these days, gameplay, hell even on desktop screen, maybe eventually it'll be resolved for everyone. But I guess it's just the downside of having a software based gsync compatible monitor tech in my case.

    Tbh its a blessing that it doesn't occur or very rarely with Vulkan in pure gameplay cuz I would've just dropped it.
    Like DX12 gives me much more downsides with RDR2 starting from longer loading screens to:






    + those black \flicker glitches in the background, and also about camp\chimneys smoke volumetrics, its a random thing one time it's a one camp fire blinking then after save reload it's the other one, I've also seen it in Saint Denis on those big factories chimney but didn't capture it.

    BUT I don't have ANY Dx12 issues\flickering under Vulkan lol so Vulkan just wins in terms of less important flickers lol

    I just updated RTSS to 7.3.1 - same thing, flickers if fps capped.
    But literally it tells of how similar both Rtss and Nv v3 limiters in the way how they operate, not quite the same but still.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
  7. SerjRozov

    SerjRozov Active Member

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    Ok so just quick and important addition:

    I just tested both Rtss and Nv v3 (separately\two runs) frame rate limiters without G-sync\compatible meaning I turned the setting off in G-sync nvcpl menu + chosen fixed refresh rate on both global and rdr2 profile's monitor's tech setting and it's still gives me these artifacts lol well I'm actually frustrated now.

    It is obviously Frame Rate Limiter in conjunction with both G-sync and\or original Vertical Sync that gives me such issue!

    @ManuelG @Unwinder can anybody look into this please?
     
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  8. AsiJu

    AsiJu Ancient Guru

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    Yeah could be I think, possibly same in the distance.
    Didn't happen in the video but those dark, like drip marks on the far building often flicker on and off. It's probably similar "superimposed" detail as the one seen in the floor.

    Not a deal breaker though and like said that spot is the one where I really notice it, otherwise not so much.
     
  9. Smough

    Smough Master Guru

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    It is possible that this problem is to blame to frame rate limiters and not nvidia or even amd drivers, I also have this issue, exact same as in your videos (my monitor is NOT gsync btw, so I doubt that's the issue), little did I know RTSS was to blame. Thing is, it does give me a smoother experience since the frametime in RDR2 isn't the best, even with v-sync on, it isn't optimal and feels jittery and well, RTSS fixes this issue entirely.

    Also never ever ask for support to "official" tech support of any game, the employees they have are very ignorant and not tech-experienced at all, they just follow a strict script like a bot would; I did this with at least 3 games that had some issues on my end and these idiots couldn't solve anything whatsoever, they couldn't even comprehend some of the terms I was using. Telling you to remove a piece of software that is also very valuable is one of the dumbest advices I've ever read, which also sort of proves they refuse to fix their sh*t.

    In this case, the best you can do is either post this in RTSS forum from Guru3D and ask for a possible fix, if there is any. It is possible nvidia drivers need a fix, but since this flicker also occurs with RTSS frame limiter on, means it's a problem more to the game than to other stuff, but you lose nothing by asking. Oh and Unwinder will most likely won't help you since you just pinged him, he doesn't like that, it is what it is.

    I also wish there was a solution since this flicker is annoying, but not game breaking. Seems I will have to try the game with RTSS frame rate limiting off and see how it goes.
     
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  10. Cave Waverider

    Cave Waverider Maha Guru

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    I've also been seeing flickering in RDR2 for a long time. I thought it was an issue with my VRR Monitor. After reading these posts, I disabled RTSS and low and behold, the flickering is gone completely. Not sure what's going on here. Probably just something whacky with the game engine.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2021
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  11. SerjRozov

    SerjRozov Active Member

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    Shoot, i didn't knew that there's separate rtss forum here, ok i'll find it then later today.
    Yeah, that's definitely not a driver issue i have literally tried a bunch already, nor windows and most likely not the game issue, at least we can't say that until R* would've like clarify that rdr2 should be played ONLY like 30/60fps with classic vsync or like strictly ingame vsync, its input lag, so no modern driver software based tech like gsync and frame rate limiter can be used and whatnot restrictions you can imagine, so then you wont see any graphical issues lol (but actually the support was usefull at least to determine the root cause in this case) and until there are no such requirements made its just Nv v3 and Rtss frl problem, it persists whether you using gsync/vsync or not, but most important that basically in this case there is no point using G-sync (+V-sync) since its suppose to be working in conjunction with Frame Rate Limiter, so it is an issue.
    I was hoping to find others experiencing same thing for confirmation, thanks!
    Thing is that today this issue exposed itself in rdr but who knows if tomorrow all such graphical issues with games will be stated as idk "normal engine rendering problems" and we'll be waiting for a fix in months or years or seeing this as a tradeoff between quality and performance? Hell no.
     
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  12. AsiJu

    AsiJu Ancient Guru

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    I just remembered that apparently to enable Vulkan hooking a driver must be loaded at Windows boot or something, ie. the only way to completely disable it is to remove RTSS.

    It's possible I didn't reboot my system in between removing and reinstalling AB / RTSS, I'll give one more shot to it just in case.

    Do all of you guys also get flickering when using NV frame rate limiter?

    Having said that I doubt the issue are the limiters per se, but perhaps something in NV drivers + Vulkan (a particular implementation of Vulkan API?) + using either RTSS or NV limiter.

    Any AMD GPU users here and experiencing the same thing (with RTSS limiter or possibly AMD's own)?
     
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  13. SerjRozov

    SerjRozov Active Member

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    For me its straight forward, you can leave rtss on, you can even leave overlay settings on, issue occur only if frl is on, like any, both rtss and nv v3, I pointed it out. So both Nvidia and Rtss developers should be interested.

    I personaly only talking about rdr2 single player. Don't know bout any other game's flickering issue, so idk if any other game is affected.

    Yeah, thats very good point about amd gpu users and rtss, just to check it out.
     
  14. Unwinder

    Unwinder Moderator Staff Member

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    Sometimes I really miss post dislike feature in our forum so I cannot mark posts which I treat as technical nonsense. Now I'm bobmed with "RTSS is causing flickers" and get demands to fix it from noobs inspired by this thread and have to pay with my work time on commenting this.

    An no, I'm not interested because I understand how it works. If game engine is producing rendering artifacts on lower framerate, it is not a framerate limiter issue. And it is pointless to expect a fix from ANY framerate limiter side.
     
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  15. SerjRozov

    SerjRozov Active Member

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    Well good for you, then maybe you'll explain to us peasants what do you mean by lower framerate? In my understanding you mean if i'll cap it at 120-144fps then the artifacts will stop? that's what you mean?
     
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  16. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    layers don't need to be loaded at boot, you can load them dynamically.

    ah.... by not using a framelimit thats a multiple or divisor of 60, theres potential for certain effects that fire periodically to fail, such as frame alpha clearing, reflections that operate at a fraction of the framerate, TAA frame sampling... etc.

    in this case, its likely TAA sampling against a dropped frame and the TAA affected regions blinking as a result.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2021
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  17. Smough

    Smough Master Guru

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    Told you. As an addition, while RTSS is very good, the metrics aren't always perfect, so also keep that in mind. ( 1:17:00 ) on that video btw.

     
  18. Nastya

    Nastya Member Guru

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    I don't have any issues of the sort. Under DX12, both NVv3 and RTSS limiters play without flickering in the spots you mentioned and in general. G-Sync and V-Sync enabled in NVCP, V-Sync in-game off. 60 FPS limit set. Driver is 460.79.
     
  19. Smough

    Smough Master Guru

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    This means if you use an arbitrary framerate number lock on a gsync screen (say 80, just as an example) it could cause issues with certain game engines or API's?
     
  20. Cave Waverider

    Cave Waverider Maha Guru

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    I understand. What's odd, however, is that I get the flickering/strobing in RDR2 (Vulkan) when I have both Gsync + Control Panel Vsync on and I have RTSS running (even without an FPS limiter applied). If I disable RTSS (disable monitoring in Afterburner 4.6.4 Beta 2 and ensure RTSS isn't running), the flicker is gone. The game runs at my monitor's native 60Hz/60FPS with RTSS enabled or disabled. Since you said it isn't an issue caused by RTSS itself, it's probably that the game just doesn't like this combination on my PC for whatever reason. RDR2 has always been weird anyway. It makes no sense and shouldn't behave like this, but for some reason it does.

    Perhaps it's a related bug in the driver as there is with VR and monitoring tools?
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2021

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