RTG: When will we get IQ features for DX12/Vulkan?

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon Drivers Section' started by Eastcoasthandle, Aug 1, 2020.

  1. CPC_RedDawn

    CPC_RedDawn Ancient Guru

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    They simply are not needed as much as they were before. Polygon count has massively increased since DX9, tessellation has been optimised a lot now, and the biggest reason is that we have all moved over to much higher resolutions leading to AA really not being needed.

    Most games now have their own AA methods included, and most engines have moved away from the old and expensive multisample AA and more towards FXAA, SMAA, or the frame based TAA as these are less performance expensive, easier to implement and in some cases do a better job as for instance TAA can focus on specific areas of a frame whereas the old MSAA focused on the whole screen.

    AF is also going to be phased out with better texture filtering options being implemented engine side and just enabled and optimised in the game with no option in game.

    Not only this but AMD and Nvidia knows that majority of people don't bother with setting game profiles or even opening the control panels. And most people who want these features use sweetfx, reshade, or nspector. So they don't bother implementing them when most people won't be using them.
     
  2. aufkrawall2

    aufkrawall2 Master Guru

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    You are mistaken there. While there are issues with forced AF in some games like Horizon Zero Dawn, it works fine in a vast number of other titles. It's just an unnecessary eyesore if some textures are very or completely blurry, especially without any technical necessity.
     
  3. CPC_RedDawn

    CPC_RedDawn Ancient Guru

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    AF is going to be phased out for better more efficient alternatives much like MSAA has been phased out, just because one game included a broken option doesn't say otherwise.

    EDIT:

    Here is a good write up on the difference and future techniques https://medium.com/@bgolus/sharper-mipmapping-using-shader-based-supersampling-ed7aadb47bec
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2020
  4. aufkrawall2

    aufkrawall2 Master Guru

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    There will be plenty more of games with D3D12/Vulkan over the next decade that will screw up AF just because of questionable console performance optimization, just believe it...
     

  5. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    The bigger picture suggests that we have some sort of replacement/substitute for those features that are antiquated. And not just leave them for "DX 9 Games". This optically is a very bad look for Redeon once they make comparisons with Nvidia's control panel feature set. And rumor has it Nvidia is finally giving their control panel a face lift on top of that makes for a compelling argument be it you can't stand them or not.

    RTG has dropped the ball here. And we should have working IQ feature sets regardless if it improves or doesn't improve frame rates. Be it TAA/FXAA....be it working AF or enhanced RIS. Something needs to happen and happen soon.

    Another rumor has it that DLSS will be driver level for Nvidia through TAA for those games they've "adjusted" for. If true and the reviewer tells you that RTG has nothing to counter for it. Let alone any IQ features within the driver it will give Radeon brand a bad look. Even if it's not true; those of us who actually own the product can clearly see the removal/depreciation of IQ features that haven't been replaced in ages. Which is unacceptable.

    I'm not saying "make it work". I'm saying make the Advance Tab great again!!!
     
  6. CPC_RedDawn

    CPC_RedDawn Ancient Guru

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    Look at the value of Nvidia and then look at the value of AMD.

    There is your answer, Nvidia has much MUCH more money to throw around for everything from marketing, to r&d, even to a bigger, more well manned driver team.

    Its well known for years that by default AMD drivers and GPU give better IQ then Nvidia's. This may have changed since I was on team red (HD7970) but I remember reading countless articles on respected website showing that AMD's (ATi at the time) texture filtering was better quality, their mipmap settings gave better quality and it compared and showed how Nvidia used different compression methods to try and squeeze out more performance.

    AMD's drivers have come a long way and do offer some great features Nvidia's don't, such as a featured in game overlay, in game recording which has been shown to give better IQ than Nvidia's shadowplay, radeon chill which I think is an excellent must have feature for better efficiency, a much much better looking control panel, radeon boost for dynamic resolution scaling, image sharpening which I find far superior to Nvidia's blurry smear that is their sharpening feature at any setting, then you have integer scaling, antilag, media filters and amd link.

    All tested on my Mr's Laptop with a 4000 series APU and all work flawlessly for her.

    I also wouldn't count AMD out just yet, we have finally seen a console exclusive title developed specifically for consoles and much later ported over to the PC with Horizon Zero Dawn... if the performance benchmarks are anything to go by with a GTX580 destroying a GTX1060 by almost 30% we can finally see (more so hopefully see) AMD's long terms plan with supporting all major consoles with their new tech. All new console games will be optimised not just for Zen2 cores but also for RDNA cores too.
     
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  7. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    I'm aware of the financial differences between the two companies.
    However, it doesn't excuse RTG from not trying something to add value to Adrenaline other then remove/disable/hide features. That either work but need registry tweaks because they are absent from GUI. Features like AF that need to be fixed and overall improvements for IQ that should have been an ongoing project since DX9. Sorry, cannot give them pass on that since I paid good, working man, money for my 5700xt and I value what I buy with it.

    However, it's within AMD capabilities to shift funds from Ryzen to the driver department. If that's any consolation.

    And I don't downplay most other features and performance upticks in Adrenaline. The last few games tested put the 5700xt on par with a 2070s which isn't a small feat.

    However, we need a step back to make sure that those IQ features once dependent on actually are working so that games that have broken AF, for example, don't also bork Radeon user experience because AF in the driver is also borked.
     
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  8. CPC_RedDawn

    CPC_RedDawn Ancient Guru

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    We can all only hope.
     
  9. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    The removing, depreciating features as a whole have been going on for years now. Most recent feature removed the the GUI was Cache toggle. We now have to go into the registry to set it to On, Off or default of AMD Optimized. Which was also in each game profile. RTG nick pick features to remove for no reason. One here, one there kind of thing with no explanation as to why the feature was removed in the driver notes.

    The other more recent IQ issue is the custom features for Video Profiles. After 1 year of driver updates we still have missing video profile features
    Vega: https://abload.de/img/2020.03.19-23.390xjq7.png
    5700xt: https://i.imgur.com/62xQt90.jpg

    Reported multiple times. No fix.

    We can only hope indeed. But hope is not there. I wouldn't be surprised if they cut support of the 5700 series once next gen comes out.
     
  10. Only Intruder

    Only Intruder Maha Guru

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    While this doesn't help the issue, there is a much better alternative (in terms of ensuring the finest quality) for video decoding and rendering rather than using built-in hardware (the hardware decoders and renderers are really more for integrated solutions for low power environments). Make sure to have appropriate codecs (yes, decoding video on CPU) and then use madVR to render the video on GPU with superb scaling, filtering and other features.
     
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  11. user1

    user1 Ancient Guru

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    Btw I came across this project https://github.com/DadSchoorse/vkBasalt, and I was successfully use it with a few different vulkan programs, it could probably be ported to windows. includes smaa ,fxaa and Cas (contrast adaptive sharpening ) and some other stuff. may be something to keep an eye on
     
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  12. aufkrawall2

    aufkrawall2 Master Guru

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  13. user1

    user1 Ancient Guru

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    oh interesting, didn't realize reshade had vulkan/d3d support now, thats probably a good interm solution for AA at least
     
  14. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    I forgot they removed FTRC for chill.
    Anyone got a list of features RTG removed?
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2020
  15. aufkrawall2

    aufkrawall2 Master Guru

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    Correction: It is said to work correctly after cleaning the shader cache once. So yeah: AMD users have to play with crap texture filtering, while Nvidia users have full 16:1 AF for every texture.
     

  16. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    outstanding /s
     
  17. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    unfortunately the next nvidia driver will have "Prevent driver AF" enabled for HZD because too many users are submitting feedback that they broke the game with AF.

    But those who have a will to, have a way to use it, as usual.
     

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