Review: Intel Core i7 8700K processor

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Oct 5, 2017.

  1. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    I know you didn't claim that - notice I was quoting SVS there.

    But as you can clearly tell from the benchmarks, there are no frame caps. Most (if not all of the games, from my recollection) don't reach 144FPS. If you're willing to sacrifice detail levels or resolution to reach a framerate, it really doesn't matter what CPU you get, because you're already degrading something. Enthusiasts aren't willing to make sacrifices, that's why you'll see many get 32GB of RAM despite never using half of that. The fact of the matter is, the GPUs are the bottleneck, and any overclocked i7 from the past few years will be plenty good enough.

    Why is that a problem? Sure, it's a bit boring for an enthusiast, but if all you do is play games then I would gladly pay the price of an i3 to get an acceptable framerate. This reminds me of the people who laugh at those who get drunk from just a couple beers, but I personally envy those people because if getting drunk is your objective, the lightweights are the ones who get there faster and the cheapest.
     
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  2. yasamoka

    yasamoka Ancient Guru

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    1080p results represent situations where the current generation of graphics cards is able to push such high framerates that the CPU becomes the limiting factor.

    These results are the 1440p results of the next generation of graphics cards.

    The resolution for the benchmarks doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if people play at 1080p, or 1440p, or 4K. People are already playing at 144Hz+ with the first two and, anytime now, 4K 144Hz monitors will be released and people with 1080Ti SLi or the next generation of graphics cards will be playing at those high framerates. They will encounter bottlenecks with slower CPUs.

    As for older games that run easily at, say, 4K 144Hz, even those will need a beefy CPU in order to reduce CPU bottlenecks.

    Higher refresh rate monitor users desire higher framerates all the time. Sometimes, even at the expense of lowering their graphics settings so they can hit their framerate targets. At any resolution.

    We're heading into territory where we're moving beyond even 144Hz. And the results are tangible at such high framerates.

    That so many simply can't get this simple fact down is what's hilarious.
     
  3. airbud7

    airbud7 Ancient Guru

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    I got to agree^... you got me there Bro!.....heck I've owned 4 i3's and loved every one...bad ass little gaming chips.

    Hey...the next i3's are gonna be 4core for the same price and that looks like it might be the true budget cpu...But then again, the i3 always was.
     
  4. MonstroMart

    MonstroMart Master Guru

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    Pretty much sums it up imo.

    If you game at 60-75 fps and consider workstation duties as important then the Ryzen is a very good option. If you favor framerate over resolution and are only gaming then Intel is the obvious choice.
     
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  5. MonstroMart

    MonstroMart Master Guru

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    It's useless if you are gaming only and have big pockets. It's not for other people. If the main use case of your computer is workstation and you are only causally gaming then it's important to know at which resolution/settings the gpu is a bottleneck. If the gpu is a bottleneck at the resolution and settings you plan to game at (let's say 4k and high+ settings) then at this point workstation results matter more for you. If you are on a budget then you want to know at which point you can stop investing on the cpu and start adding to your gpu budget (cause when it comes to gaming gpu > cpu).

    Knowing where the gpu is a bottleneck and where an expensive cpu wont give you better results while gaming is important information for many people. And yeah knowing which cpu can give you 144 fps at 1080 using the best quality settings is also important.
     
  6. MonstroMart

    MonstroMart Master Guru

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    I don't know a single living soul owning a 2k 144Hz monitor. They don't sell those where i live. Too expensive probably. I would say in Canada you are a very good 5 years away minimum from finding a 4k 144Hz monitor in store for less than 1k CAD. By that time you'll also probably find 8k 60Hz monitors and your cpu will be starting to show it's age.
     
  7. PontiacGTX

    PontiacGTX Member

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    anyone has found a review of Coffee lake using an AMD GPUs older than RX Vega?
     
  8. D3M1G0D

    D3M1G0D Ancient Guru

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    Except that by the time we can play games at 4K @ 144 FPS, enthusiasts will have moved onto 6K or 8K gaming. No enthusiast worth his/her salt would allow their $700 GPU to go to waste by playing with a CPU bottleneck, and as GPU power increases so will our graphics standards (a few years ago, 1080p used to be high-end, today that's 4K, and in the future it'll be 8K, etc.). High-end gaming will always be GPU-bound.
     
  9. StewieTech

    StewieTech Chuck Norris

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    Hey Hilbert my man thanks for the review. Sweet CPU. No upgrade for me though, im fine with my quad core for now.
     
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  10. yasamoka

    yasamoka Ancient Guru

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    Except that it's no longer the case that we're simply moving forward with resolution but also with refresh rate, unlike in the past. So, now, the CPU matters more than ever before when gaming with high framerates. The choice between low resolution high refresh rate and high resolution low refresh rate no longer has to be made with the existence of 1440p 144Hz. As for 4K 144Hz, the same will apply: given enough GPU horsepower, the CPU can and will bottleneck at high framerates.

    I also gave an example of older games where we already have enough GPU horsepower for 4K 144Hz. In those cases, you will encounter CPU bottlenecks with a slow CPU.

    Enthusiasts won't be moving anywhere. SLi and CF are at an all-time low with vendor support, and pretty soon I wouldn't be surprised to see them vanish. The enthusiast is redefined, for the most part, as one who has the top single GPU. In those cases, more tend to gravitate towards 1440p 144Hz and 3440x1440 100Hz than 4K 60Hz. The reason? High refresh rate gaming. Again. The CPU becomes an important component to watch out for.

    Nothing will change this for the forseeable future. In the past, early 2000's, we used to play our games at below 30FPS and that was the standard. Resolution went up to 1024x768, 1280x1024, 1600x1200 eventually. Games still didn't meet any 60FPS targets. Then 1920x1200 and 60FPS started to become a lucrative target. Now it's 144Hz+. The CPU becomes more and more important.
     
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  11. D3M1G0D

    D3M1G0D Ancient Guru

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    Sorry, but I see no evidence that enthusiasts are moving en-mass to 144 Hz+ monitors, especially at the expense of high-resolution monitors (including yours truly). To my knowledge, high refresh rates are only really important to competitive gamers, and only a small subset of competitive gamers (mostly FPS gamers). Even if this was a thing, Ryzen is often able to pull triple digit frame rates at low resolution - it's not as fast as a comparable Core CPU but it's not plunging into the low thirties either.

    High-resolution gaming is as important as it's always been, and when GPUs become powerful enough to allow AAA games to be played comfortably at 6K then you can bet enthusiasts will jump on it (certainly don't want to game at low res like the plebs :p).
     
  12. sverek

    sverek Ancient Guru

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    Are we here to see benchmarks or whether CPU is good enough for 60hz monitor?
     
  13. D3M1G0D

    D3M1G0D Ancient Guru

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    Are we here to see synthetic tests or real-life gaming tests? I mean honestly, who do you know has a GTX 1080 Ti and games only at 1080p by choice?
     
  14. sverek

    sverek Ancient Guru

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    And 1440p144hz by choice? And looking to buy CPU not for today but for 4-6 years?
    Or you know, doesn’t play games on ULTRA settings cause those exists?

    Do you think my GTX970 caps when I try to reach 100fps on BF4? No, I have to overclock 2500k to 4.5Ghz to get frames and make game stable on high settings. panel is 1440p@96hz
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2017
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  15. D3M1G0D

    D3M1G0D Ancient Guru

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    So you are a mid-range gamer then, and yet I see you endlessly complaining about testing methodology for the 8700K, an enthusiast-grade product. I'm not sure if you're the target market here - do you have any plans of buying this CPU?
     

  16. sverek

    sverek Ancient Guru

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    Yes I am and yes I will consider buying it, if I need CPU.
    I am reasonable with my hardware. To me, it's not about price, its how much value hardware can actually deliver before it being replaced.
    CPU is not something I want to change every 2 years. If I buy CPU now, I keep it until at least 2022.

    Not sure if accusing me as "mid-range gamer" gives me less rights to voice my thoughts. That's just rude and irrelevant.
    While I can buy i9, SLI 1080Ti and put it underwater for gaming (no matter how stupid it might sound).... I just don't need it.
    I am happy with what I have right now. It's balanced and serves me right.

    I am just not that type of gamer who must have all graphic setting set to ULTRA or BUST. I am too old to joy myself with all little eye candies.
    So by not stressing my GPU whenever the game gives me right to, I tend to run into CPU cap, since CPU performance tend to be more static and less dynamic like GPU (hence game graphic settings).

    So yeah, while being "mid-range gamer" I do want to know how far CPU can be pushed for gaming. And my opinion wasn't just for this CPU, but CPU gaming benchmark in general.
    I don't expect Guru3D staff to work overtime to re-bench games with high settings without AA. This is just my opinion that I wish raised a little bit of awareness.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2017
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  17. Robbo9999

    Robbo9999 Ancient Guru

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    That's a silly statement in my eyes "no enthusiast worth his salt would allow their $700 GPU to go to waste by playing with a CPU bottleneck" - that's just silly talk, if you're playing a competetive online multiplayer fps then you want a stable non-fluctuating high framerate ideally, this by definition means you're not using the full potential of the GPU all of the time, and to say that these people are not enthusiasts is just silly. This is one reason why CPU bound testing is interesting/important.
     
  18. tfam26

    tfam26 Master Guru

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    4790k still going strong @4.9ghz with no issues running modern games @1440p/144hz whatsoever.

    Until I see something released along the lines of 50%+ performance that runs a lot cooler than all these recent chips, I'll continue to upgrade my GPU regularly instead.
     
  19. Ryu5uzaku

    Ryu5uzaku Ancient Guru

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    Tbh for most competitive games you can pretty much choose any cpu from current lineup from either company and get your desired fps unless it is 240hz range then there will be difference.
     
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  20. geogan

    geogan Master Guru

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    They are obviously showing over-clocked benchmark. See the tab in this review for Overclocking and you'll see the 8700k here getting over 1500.

    On a related note, does anyone know, does a score A of 3000 in Cinebench R15 compared to score B of 1500 mean that A is twice as fast as B? I tried to search for answer to this but can't see anything on Maxon site. For all we know maybe the scores are not linear (logarithmic maybe like hurricane power) and A is 5 times as fast as B ?!? Anyone know?
     

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