1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Review: Intel Core i7 8700K processor

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Oct 5, 2017.

  1. S V S

    S V S Member

    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    11
    GPU:
    Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti
    I have no issue with your argument, outside my point that Hilbert should also be showing us the relative gaming performance of a given CPU.. not just that in some games and some gaming use-cases you may not need a better CPU. It really doesn't make any sense to benchmark CPUs for gaming and specifically only pick games and use settings that are completely GPU bound.

    I want to reiterate the point that there ARE games TODAY that are CPU limited, especially when it comes to high Hz monitors. This isn't a hypothetical, future issue. Hilbert's gaming benchmark suite for CPUs is completely useless at displaying the relative gaming performance of a CPU. I am not arguing he should stop showing the tables that show in some cases you are just fine spending less on a CPU for gaming, but there are plenty of gaming-use cases TODAY where you greatly benefit from having a better CPU. Hilbert's gaming benchmarks have provided me almost no data to really gauge the performance difference of a Ryzen 7 and 8700K for gaming. He could do this, and it would be valuable information to a lot of members here.

    I get the feeling you are arguing this information should not be provided because you are an AMD fan and you know it wouldn't reflect positively on Ryzen. I think that is bunk. If you'd want the information provided if the situation was reversed, AMD had the stronger gaming chip, you should also be for it here. Hiding this kind of information from us, the consumers, doesn't help us. I may actually consider a Ryzen 7 for gaming if I had a better idea of exactly how much weaker it is in gaming. Based off this review, I don't even begin to know enough to make a decision.
     
  2. Agent-A01

    Agent-A01 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    11,360
    Likes Received:
    896
    GPU:
    1080Ti H20
    That's why you read multiple reviews to gather enough data for a purchase decision.

    All reviewers have different test setups and they can't all cover everything.
    If you want to gauge CPU performance, here is some good data.
    http://www.pcgamer.com/intels-8th-gen-processors-deliver-a-huge-jump-in-performance/

    8700k can be significantly faster in some games over top end ryzen.
     
    airbud7, S V S and Robbo9999 like this.
  3. user1

    user1 Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,388
    Likes Received:
    445
    GPU:
    hd 6870
    pretty sure f36 on coffee lake is vss to gnd in the intel pdf at least.

    also j14, j15, au9 , and au10 appear to be rsvd on the 8thgen and 6gen maps im looking at in the intel pdfs, 6th gen , 8th gen.

    VCC_GTx_SENSE appears to be auxillary to vcc_gt_sense , so if you short it to ground it shouldn't effect anything, it could also ignored via software if its used for posting.

    Either way all of the pins that are changed appear to be very minor things, pretty sure the Rsvd pins are not used for normal operation , only way to know for sure would be to check them with an oscilloscope or try taping over the them/shorting to gnd( on a kaby lake cpu) and see if the proc still posts in a z270 motherboard.

    intel could have supported kaby lake on z370 if they wanted to , there is no question about that at least.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
  4. Robbo9999

    Robbo9999 Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,318
    Likes Received:
    220
    GPU:
    GTX1070 @2050Mhz
    Thanks for that link, the first graph you come to in that article shows the average fps difference between CPUs that has been averaged from 15 different games. Some people were saying that the 1700X should be compared to the 8700K as they are similarly priced, and I agree with that statement; this graph in that link shows 8700K gaining 23% more framerate than the 1700X (comparing stock to stock).
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017

  5. DmitryKo

    DmitryKo Master Guru

    Messages:
    243
    Likes Received:
    40
    GPU:
    R9 290X 4GB
    Sorry, should've been J17, J19, B39, C40 - clearly labelled VCCG0 or VCCG1 on the ball map (pages 122-123 of 8th gen datasheet).

    Ah. You're right.

    It would probably require a new chipset revision to implement CPU detection, and from all we know, Z370 is simply old Z270 silicon with a new hardware ID.
    https://www.thurrott.com/hardware/140883/intel-takes-8th-generation-processors-desktop

    This new socket revision looks like a result of a late and unexpected decision to market the rumored 8-core LGA 1151 Coffee Lake/Cannonlake processors - so Z370 could be a stop-gap solution until proper 300-series chipsets arrive with support for 4-, 6-, and 8-core LGA1151v2 processors across the entire range (B350/Q350/H370/Z390). But do not expect any backward compatibility - Intel would probably treat this LGA1151v2 as a new mechanically incompatible socket, much like LGA2011/2011-1/2011-3.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
  6. Stormyandcold

    Stormyandcold Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    5,201
    Likes Received:
    138
    GPU:
    MSI GTX1070 GamingX
    Well, I've had time to look at a variety of videos, including Digital Foundry. For me, it's a touch pricey, but, nothing overly shocking. It's a good gaming cpu and for people like me, there's some extra power for music DAW production. Decent product tbh. I would love to compare it to Ryzen 1700X and 1800X in a DAW and see which one wins.
     
  7. Scyphe

    Scyphe Master Guru

    Messages:
    426
    Likes Received:
    1
    GPU:
    MSI Radeon 7950@1150/1700
    DAW's need more single-threaded power than multi-threaded.

    Each channel in your DAW is limited to a single thread for all signal processing that occurs on that channel. This is because splitting the channels threads would introduce latency in playback. More than one channel can share a thread. So multi-threading is a bit of a lark. If your running a lot of channels, threads can be beneficial because your pool of available space is greater. The caveat here though is that if your CPU processing ability can't keep up with a channels needs it can't shift those needs to two threads.

    So while a particular CPU may have better multi-threading capabilities, from a practical stand point it doesn't expand your capabilities unless the CPU is able to keep up with the demands of each channel. Having 8 threads isn't beneficial if your maxing out its capabilities with one or two plugins.

    If you run a lot of VST, DSP, etc on a channel more CPU power is essential.

    If you run a lot of channels with audio playback but not a lot of processing more threads might be beneficial.
    (From: https://sound.stackexchange.com/questions/30057/is-multi-threading-important-for-daws )

    Obviously you'd want the best of both worlds to cover all the bases. Designing a DAW-system can be quite tricky since you have to juggle with a lot of variables depending on your needs.
     
    Stormyandcold likes this.
  8. user1

    user1 Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,388
    Likes Received:
    445
    GPU:
    hd 6870
    ah i see, seems like someone forgot to blank those out/label the table correctly, lmao, but again, wouldn't really know if those are different from kaby lake unless you measured both with an oscilloscope. since those pins are undocumented.

    I would do it my self but i lack the resources to buy a z270 and a z370 plaform for testing.

    I dunno, if intel can transplant kabylake to x299 despite it not having FIVRs , Their stuff must be pretty flexible, not like the chipset really has anything new and/or uses a different type of dmi link. nothing really functionally different between coffeelake and kabylake besides the extra power pins and a few relocated pins, which are not critical to the function of the processor. if anything im more surprised that intel hasn't launched a revised "7790k" type cpu for z370 to fill the lack of coffeelake cpu supply ,
    Would make a whole lot more sense than the 7740k on x299.
     
  9. nz3777

    nz3777 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,370
    Likes Received:
    175
    GPU:
    Gtx 980 Strix
    Thank you for the review Hilbert, If possible I would like to know how they perform in some older titles such as Metro Last light and games around that timeframe.The only reason I am asking I do not play any of those games there were tested in this review ( Old-school) here lol. So if possible maybe in the future to add to the reviews? Thank you Hilbert.
     
  10. DmitryKo

    DmitryKo Master Guru

    Messages:
    243
    Likes Received:
    40
    GPU:
    R9 290X 4GB
    LGA 2066 is a server platform, designed with maximum flexibility from ground up - with a choice of 2 or 4 memory channels and 4/6/8/10/12/16-core processors with very different PCIe configurations and lane topologies and/or number of QPI links, all on the same motherboard (and using the same enthusiast-level chipset for Core-branded parts). This probably requires a lot of processor detection and configuration pins to function properly (can't find pin description for LGA 2066 processors though).

    LGA1151 support for 6- and 8-core processors looks like an afterthought, implemented as a quick-n-dirty solution to counter the AMD Zen processors, which have eaten a substantial share of the desktop market. We do not know what impact these new 6- and 8-core configurations have on support and testing, and we do not know if this implementation is even cost-efficient to make - and in fact, Thurrot.com article linked above assumes that Intel bears substantially higher costs to produce these 6-core processors, but cannot increase the prices because of AMD.
     

  11. Jawnys

    Jawnys Member Guru

    Messages:
    125
    Likes Received:
    21
    GPU:
    zotac amp extreme 1080ti
    its a shame these processor wont work on z170
     
  12. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    16,385
    Likes Received:
    1,476
    GPU:
    Zotac GTX980Ti OC
    IceLake is a completely new architecture, CanonLake is still SkyLake architecture.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_Lake_(microarchitecture)
     
  13. Guru01

    Guru01 Master Guru

    Messages:
    339
    Likes Received:
    25
    GPU:
    ASUS ROG STRIX 1070
    Yeah, or the Z270's....
     
    typhon6657 likes this.
  14. Venix

    Venix Master Guru

    Messages:
    938
    Likes Received:
    321
    GPU:
    Palit 1060 6gb
    Well i was talking about the availability claim really :p i guess i should have specified , well obviously amd and intel try to rip each other throats out they compete on the same market after all!
     
  15. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    9,686
    Likes Received:
    362
    GPU:
    EVGA 1070Ti Black
    if it did i would bought a 8700k but cause i have to get new mobo to do that, intel wont get anything from me for another 3~4 years when i make my next pc, by then 8c/16t or more @ 4ghz should be thing and the era of multi core/thread aware software should in full swing? maybe?

    hell if amd keep going they they been going in last year my next system might be amd it all depend on how close amd gets to intel performance on both STP and MTP while still remain much cheaper
     

  16. sverek

    sverek Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    5,305
    Likes Received:
    2,159
    GPU:
    NOVIDIA -0.5GB
    There 1 thing called "improvement". You can blindly like whatever Guru3D staff writes or give a feedback how to improve it.
    We all here appreciate the work. While it's impossible to keep everybody happy with an article, something can be done to majorly improve quality of it.
     
  17. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    4,427
    Likes Received:
    1,359
    GPU:
    HIS R9 290
    Yes, it does, but you keep intentionally ignoring the other reasons. Not everyone has your priorities. Again, I'm not saying things like minimum frame rates and frame times aren't worth testing - they definitely are. But to claim the current tests are useless is just simply not true.

    Name one game that is CPU limited by something like an 7700K or an 8700K at 1080p+ at 144Hz. That game cannot be limited by GPU.
    That's because there isn't really a significant difference... Yes, there would be a measurable one outside the margin of error, but measurable differences are not the same as perceivable differences. What matters most is frame consistency. 24FPS looks nice as long as the media is intended to run at that framerate, and, if it's consistent. 120Hz can be a terrible experience if there's micro-stuttering. Assuming the CPU has enough threads to meet the game's requirements, it doesn't matter what CPU you get.
    I don't give a rat's ass if these tests reflect poorly on my CPU. I've done my research and I'm well aware of the poor latency of Ryzen, the scheduler issues, sub-par IPC, and limited frequency. You think that sounds like a good gamer's CPU? And yet, I bought it anyway, because none of those things ruin my gaming experience. As I stated in an earlier post, a Ryzen is not suitable for everyone, but for the vast majority of people, it's more than good enough. As I said before, if hypotheticals and future-proofing is a priority, where do you draw the line?

    Anyway... As I've stated several times before: I don't disagree that the tests you want provide useful information. I wholeheartedly agree it should be provided. What I don't agree with is how you think the existed data is useless, because it really isn't.

    P.S. I am writing this on my primary home PC, an Intel Haswell platform.
     
  18. Khronikos

    Khronikos Master Guru

    Messages:
    710
    Likes Received:
    49
    GPU:
    EVGA SC2 1080ti
    LOL at the 1440p scores. My 2600K is still holding up. I see no reason to even care atm.
     
  19. DW75

    DW75 Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,142
    Likes Received:
    556
    GPU:
    ROG GTX1080 Ti OC
    I think the obsession with 1080P results is hilarious. More and more people are diving into higher resolution monitors and TVs for gaming. This mindset that Intel is the only solution for gamers is a complete laugh. At 1440P and above, things become almost even. People need to get off their high horse.
     
  20. SubtleOne

    SubtleOne Master Guru

    Messages:
    245
    Likes Received:
    5
    GPU:
    Zotac GTX 1060 Amp!
    What's more is that the results are all so far above silky smooth that it reminds me of an old comic back during the Cold War: one guy says to his friend, "I feel so much more secure knowing we can blow up the world 7 times over and the Russians can only blow it up 5 times."
     
    MonstroMart likes this.

Share This Page