Review: GeForce RTX 2060 and 2070 SUPER Founders edition

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jul 2, 2019.

  1. Aura89

    Aura89 Ancient Guru

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    People always say this, yet people who actually buy the cards almost never say this, why would anyone want progress to not...progress?

    Either way it's not "less than 6 months"

    RTX 2080 was released 9 and a half months ago, and by the time the RTX 2080 super is released (since it's not yet, releases on the 23rd according to the article) it'd be just over 10 months.


    That makes zero sense.

    Basically you're saying:

    We as customers want it all, better performance, better technology, innovation, BUT! we don't want to pay for it!

    As consumers we ALWAYS care about how much it takes to make a product because it determines what the price is, that IS for us to care for. And if we don't like the price, then we don't buy it, but if a company gives you something that is far beyond what other companies are giving you but costs more, it's your decision.

    It's always the customers decision to decide if a company made the right call or not, and to buy or not.

    What's next, are you going to go to Tesla and say "Hey this car that costs $60,000 to make, let alone R&D, yeah you're going to give it to me for $25,000, because i don't care about your costs".........right......

    Companies have resource costs and R&D costs, and you can either deal with that fact, or live in some LaLa land.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2019
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  2. A M D BugBear

    A M D BugBear Ancient Guru

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    Totally agreed.
     
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  3. A M D BugBear

    A M D BugBear Ancient Guru

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    Pretty good here, 2070 super on same level or higher then the 1080ti and at a cheaper price, Not bad at all.
     
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  4. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    Touche.
    Well, I don't fully agree with that. Generally speaking, a company that invests a lot in a product is trying to make a legitimately good product. That doesn't necessarily mean the consumer should be paying extra for it (especially if we never asked for it) and that also doesn't mean the investment will yield the results they/we were hoping. But, the investment is very much worth our interest, because it shows a push for progress.

    Take Intel for example: they hardly put any investment in the CPUs they've been putting out on the market for the past 5 years, and it shows. They are, however, dumping a lot of money into other products, and which are very much worth caring about.
     
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  5. barbacot

    barbacot Master Guru

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    These cards are fine example of why competition is good for this industry.
    Faced with Navi Nvidia finally produced some good value cards.

    Now let's see AMD answer and we customers will be the ones winning.
     
  6. FatBoyNL

    FatBoyNL Ancient Guru

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    ;)
    Tesla is probably one of the worst examples one could think of. It took them about 15 years to make a reasonable profit on their latest cars... But up to this day they're in at a loss ;)
     
  7. Aura89

    Aura89 Ancient Guru

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    Which is why it's a perfect example.

    People are not willing to buy their cars, specifically, people are not willing to pay what tesla wants them to pay based off their R&D.

    This is DIRECTLY caring about how much a company pays on its R&D and costs.

    You can dislike how much R&D went into a product and therefore how much it costs to you, the consumer, in the end because of it, specifically if it doesn't bring you anything you care about. But that's you CARING how much R&D went into it.

    Hence my original statement: Saying consumers shouldn't care how much R&D goes into a product makes zero sense. If you wish they put less and brought out more mediocre products, then thats what you care about, if you wish they'd be more innovative, and bring out more high end, high cost products, then that's what you care about.

    Everyone cares about the R&D that goes into products.
     
  8. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    I don't think Tesla's profit margins have much at all to do with the discussion at hand. Despite their debts, their products are clearly in high demand, enough so that they've pretty much single-handedly re-introduced the personal EV industry. Not to mention the waiting lists.
    The reason they're in so much debt is because they went all-out in anticipation of a profitable future. They designed or are in the process of designing almost everything in-house. They don't use/support 3rd parties for anything, whether that be dealerships, repair centers, or parts suppliers. They built most of their facilities. All of this is absurdly expensive, way beyond what most people would probably assume. The only reason they're able to do any of this is because Musk already had enough money to throw into this project due to stuff like eBay and PayPal. They're still investing more of their own technology and building more of their own facilities, so their profit margins are still going to be crap. But eventually, the dust will settle. When that happens, that doesn't necessarily mean it'll work in Tesla's favor. After all, competition is growing, and fast. My point is their spending sprees won't last forever, which obviously affects profits.

    In the case of Nvidia, they're already a well-established brand with huge profits to begin with. They can dump billions of dollars into something and although they expect their customers to foot that bill, they're probably going to be fine if it doesn't pan out that way. But, I highly doubt Nvidia spent billions working on RT cores. So as far as I'm concerned, their prices aren't based on R&D costs but rather having an edge over the competition. Of course, an edge that they overestimated.
     
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  9. Robbo9999

    Robbo9999 Ancient Guru

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    Price & Performance getting better here from NVidia, but not game changers for Pascal owners - just a somewhat subtle rebalancing of price/performance to compete with upcoming AMD products.
     
  10. barbacot

    barbacot Master Guru

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    I noticed something looking at the benchmarks from the competition (nvidia/amd) point of view:

    Looking at the results between 2070 Super and Radeon VII and comparing price/performance ratio I think that nvidia killed Radeon VII.
     

  11. msotirov

    msotirov Active Member

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    I hope this launch finally convinces even the Nvidia fansboys that this is a scumbag company that doesn't care about anything but profit, definitely not about the customer or about other companies.
     
  12. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    So basically every company?

    I find the people in this thread repeating this funny - Nvidia's projection for sales Q2 are up significantly in the gaming sector, nearly matching last year's Q2 sales.. which means Turing is selling as well as Pascal, arguably better because mining isn't a factor. So I'm not sure what you guys are on about.
     
  13. pharma

    pharma Ancient Guru

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    Exactly. For about $200 cheaper and IMO well worth the price.
     
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  14. Loophole35

    Loophole35 Ancient Guru

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    I know a few people that will jump on this quick.
     
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  15. H83

    H83 Ancient Guru

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    Nice performance jumps but the prices are still to high specially the 2060S. It should be 50€ cheaper at least. As for the 2070S, it reallly surprised me performance wise, matching the 1080Ti/2080. It´s still a bit pricey but it seems "decent" value for those who want/need more firepower.

    Great review as always!
     

  16. FatBoyNL

    FatBoyNL Ancient Guru

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    True that. I think if NVidia had lower (i.e. 'normal') prices at initial release, they would have sold quite a bunch more 2060's and 2070's. Which would have lowered the possible demand for 5700 and 5700XT as everybody already got a NV card with that same performance. In that scenario they wouldn't really need to out Super cards to begin with. Says Captain Hindsight :p
     
  17. barbacot

    barbacot Master Guru

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    Looking at he situation now I remember an old joke:

    A guy steals a chicken and goes by the river and starts to pluck the chicken until all the feathers are removed. The police appears and the guy scared throw the chicken in the water. When the officer asks the guy if he stole the chicken he answers: No way officer, the chicken is taking a bath and I am guarding its clothes!

    In the same way after nvidia tried to "pluck" the customers with a generation of overpriced cards now when they are faced by the competition they just throw them in the water and play the innocent with these new cards that should have been like this from the beginning.
     
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  18. alanm

    alanm Ancient Guru

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    A little excitement is back to the GPU scene. Good on AMD for nudging Nvidia into sensibly priced refreshes.
     
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  19. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    I'm not saying you're wrong, but that statement is a little funny considering they haven't actually released anything yet.
     
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  20. Reddoguk

    Reddoguk Ancient Guru

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    Some companies are starting to offer a part exchange.

    Like with cars but for GFX cards. I don't know if they'll offer decent price in the exchange but could be a better way than waiting to sell an old card.
     

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