Review: GeForce RTX 2060 and 2070 SUPER Founders edition

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jul 2, 2019.

  1. MonstroMart

    MonstroMart Master Guru

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    It's actually 9 and a half. I know, i know, ...

    Honestly it's a short time span for a refresh. This said RTX value was obviously not good at launch and anybody who bought one of these have only himself to blame (and maybe some reviewers who went easy on these non super cards imo). I have a 1070 and i did not even slightly entertain buying a non super RTX card.
     
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  2. Aura89

    Aura89 Ancient Guru

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    It's really not.

    Someones definition of a refresh can change, so some people may have an issue on what i'm calling a refresh, but fact of the matter, everything listed here is either the same architecture or a slightly new one. And no, not all the prices will be exactly the same, even between generations they generally aren't.

    GTX 1080 to 1080 ti = 9 months 11 days. Now, i know, the Ti cost $100 more then the 1080, while costing the same as the 1080 FE. More importantly, the 1080 ti caused:

    Titan X to XP = 8 months 4 days. GTX 1080 ti directly caused this one as the GTX 1080 ti...beat the Titan X for massively less cost.

    GTX 980 to 980 ti = 8 months 15 days.

    GTX 780 to 780 ti = 5 months 15 days.

    GTX 660 ti to 760 = 10 months 9 days.

    GTX 480 to 580 = 7 months 14 days.

    Now i realize that not all of these cards were the same price, and could be considered "not replacements", but not only did most of them cause price drops for the tier it replaced, but....i really wonder about that idealogy. As if that's the issue one has with this list, what exactly are you saying? That the Super cards released now should have been more expensive while keeping the previous releases? I can't see an issue with releasing refreshed cards to replace the cards at the same price points. For instance i think people would be more then happy if the RTX 2060 super was $349 rather then $399.......

    But point being is, every generation, within 9ish months there's always a new card releasing somewhere, either to completely replace, or to be inserted at a different price and shifting other prices around. If people haven't realized that every 9 months or so there's going to be some change-up, i just really wonder how well people have been paying attention to hardware. Obviously there can be larger gaps as well, and shorter, as shown here, but 9 months for a new release of graphics cards is simply not unheard of or early based of history.
     
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  3. alanm

    alanm Ancient Guru

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    ^ Not even the half of it. Consumers frequently buy GPUs within a few weeks or months of the release of new gen cards, even knowing there are new cards about to arrive.
     
  4. angelgraves13

    angelgraves13 Ancient Guru

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    Enough of Turing...it's been mostly disappointing. DLSS and RTX haven't delivered yet. I think DLSS is dead...
     
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  5. TheDeeGee

    TheDeeGee Ancient Guru

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    Almost as quiet at the MSI RTX 2070 Gaming X... with a reference cooler.

    Impressive.
     
  6. maddog55

    maddog55 Active Member

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    these video card making companies (RED & GREEN) never factored in the possibility of the mining craze ending so abruptly.....
    their GAMING sector sales to us gamers were chicken feed compared to the miners sales.
    Prices just went batshit crazy for mere mortal gamers like me...
    My last decent card is still in my Ryzen system MSI GTX 1080 Gaming X...it was just under £500....it will play any game in my Steam library....i refuse to spend my dollars on fancy RTX jobbies and like others here will wait for the next generation..or pick up a used RTX 2080Ti!.
     
  7. Dragam1337

    Dragam1337 Ancient Guru

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    A refresh is the same chip renamed... 980 ti and 1080 ti are much bigger chips than their non-ti counterparts, and has absolutely nothing to do with a refresh...
     
  8. Aura89

    Aura89 Ancient Guru

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    Then by that logic none of the RTX super series is a refresh. Except for the 2080 Super which hasn't been released yet.

    But no, that's definitely not the definition of a resfresh.

    Graphics cards have had "new generations" with all new naming but same basic technology behind it labeled as a refresh. Why? Because it's refreshing the whole architecture, it's not a new one. Sometimes there's slight changes in this, but they are the same backbone either way.

    Good example of this: G8x vs the G9x GPUs, or aka (mostly) the 8000 vs the 9000. The 9000 series was a refresh of the 8000 series, this has been pretty much a common statement, in fact it's a big reason why there was a decent amount of people who did not like the 9000 series, as they claimed it wasn't worth it and they wanted more. This is despite the fact that they went from 90nm down to 65 and 55nm as well as lowered the prices. Was still labeled a refresh and people wanted more.

    Because there's no absolute definition, and therefore everyone has a slightly different definition of a refresh, is why i posted, which you apparently did not read:


    And i feel i'm being pretty reasonable in stating that my definition of a refresh is anything that is not directly a new architecture. It's anything a company has already released fully, or partially, and releasing later to save money on having to have a completely new architecture and cost associated with it so soon, to save money but still be releasing "new" products. This can be the same price point, or shifting price points, or creating price points. It's all released after the main products to create a refresh that people will hopefully be interested in and drumming up sales.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
  9. Dragam1337

    Dragam1337 Ancient Guru

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    By that logic the super cards are just precisly refreshes, as the chips are identical... just a new revision with more of the passive clusters activated.
     
  10. Aura89

    Aura89 Ancient Guru

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    And the difference between a 980 ti and a titan X (Maxwel) is? the difference between a 1080 ti and a titan X (pascal) is?

    No matter which way you try and turn this and create an argument for literally no reason, your point won't be made. Since no matter which way you try and claim it's not a refresh, it will be flipped on you with historical information.

    So instead of trying to create an argument for literally zero reasons, you move along.
     

  11. Dragam1337

    Dragam1337 Ancient Guru

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    The examples you used before were 980 vs 980 ti and 1080 vs 1080 ti... these gpu's does in no way use the same chips. The ti models use considerably larger chips, meaning that they can in no way be considered a refresh.

    The titans have always just been the same chip used by the TI model, just with an additional cluster activated, as a way for nvidia to justify their greed.
     
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  12. Aura89

    Aura89 Ancient Guru

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    Again, no matter what you state, historical information will continue to state you are wrong. For instance the 780 and 780 ti are all the same chip, along with the titans.

    And it doesn't matter if they use the same exact chip, because they are in the same architecture, hence refresh, they weren't released with the original released cards, and instead released at a later date to either take over price points, move them around, or create new ones. They are refreshed cards. They are the same generation, same architecture, release in refreshed packages.

    If you ONLY want to consider Titan to Ti refreshes, which the 1080 ti is not a "refresh" to a "specific" card but rather a refresh with to bring life back into the 10 series GPUs and sales, AKA, REFRESH, but if you only want to consider a specific GPU die as being a refresh, which is just wrong, then the refreshes get even quicker.

    The way i stated it:

    GTX 1080 to 1080 ti = 9 months 11 days
    GTX 980 to 980 ti = 8 months 15 days.

    The way you apparently want to state it:

    GTX Titan X(P) to 1080 ti = 7 months 8 days
    GTX Titan X(M) to 980 ti = 2 months 16 days

    But this information doesn't really state anything about the REFRESH as it's only the restructure of an individual die. What you're describing is more like a reconfigured die rather then refreshed series. Something that happens quite frequently, as can be seen in such GPUs such as the 1060 3GB and 6GB, which not only have differences in the memory, but also amount of cores, all while using the same die.

    In fact you could say the GTX 10 series had at least 2 refreshes

    2016 - Titan X, 1080, 1070, 1060, 1050
    2017 refresh - Titan XP, 1080 ti, 1070 ti, 1060 5GB, 1030
    2018 refresh - 1060 6GB GDDR5x, 1050 3GB, 1030 DDR4

    Why? Because, again, the refresh of graphics cards are to create "new" graphics cards at different prices to create life, sales and new reviews. Refreshes aren't always that great, in the stance of the 1050 3GB and 1030 DDR4....as from the reviews i've seen they are quite a bit more horrible then the original SKUs.

    So again what YOU'RE talking about is when they have the same die and re-purposing it into a different GPU. But that's not a refresh, it COULD be what they use as a refresh, but it, by definition, isn't a refresh. By definition, if that's a refresh, then a 1060 3GB is a refresh of the 1060 6GB, they both have the same die, are a refresh of eachother? Even though 1 month was passed between the two and the 3GB was planned? That doesn't make any sense, there's no refresh there, just a reconfiguration of the same die.

    And lastly, but by far not least, again why are you deciding to create an argument for literally no reason? Nothing about what you stated originally or afterwards has stated anything about why this current refresh is, or isn't, quicker then before, historically.

    So just be on your way, and stop trying to cause arguments where there isn't one to be had.
     
  13. airbud7

    airbud7 Ancient Guru

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    You need to slow down bro!....His point is just as legitimate as yours...take your meds.
     
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  14. Loophole35

    Loophole35 Ancient Guru

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    There are a lot of users on here I feel need meds. Sheesh!
     
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  15. airbud7

    airbud7 Ancient Guru

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    certain members here try and diagnose every single word you said yet only quote something that they can disagree with.....arrogant.

    Not good for a new member to experience....always try and be helpful and nice.
     

  16. fry178

    fry178 Maha Guru

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    @angelgraves13
    glad that the planet wide sales dont care if you think dlss is or isn't dead.
    you how many said that about gsync, which required more expensive monis (and add-on board) to work?


    @ all
    i dont agree with aura often, but he is right about products/pricing etc.
    buy or dont buy, and with large enough numbers it will have an impact.
    (amd - intel anyone?)

    that said, with the Nv 5xx series, i stopped being the "i-always-buy-the-2nd-biggest-chip" moron,
    and decided to buy a card that fits my perf needs, and if my budget allows something better, so be it.
    i had planned to swap my 1080 for a friends ti, as i saw the bigger vram (vs perf increase of the 20xx chips) more important for "ultra" settings/4K res.
    but still havent gotten a 4K screen yet and i'm able to sell my card for a decent price right now, and decided i rather get a LC 20xx card (so i can drop case fans below audible).

    seeing i can get a gpu that is level/faster than a 1080ti while costing way less (for air cooled),
    the 20(60)/70S are great performers for the price.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2019
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  17. angelgraves13

    angelgraves13 Ancient Guru

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    I’m still looking forward to the 64X version of DLSS, referred to as DLSS 2X. I just don’t care for rendering anything at less than native resolution. It should always be the opposite for quality.
     
  18. MonstroMart

    MonstroMart Master Guru

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    Hum same chip just renamed is mostly what i would call a rebrand. I would expect a "refresh" to add to the same chip. Here's the definition of the word refresh :

    re·fresh
    verb
    give new strength or energy to; reinvigorate.

    You don't refresh a web page expecting the same result. You refresh it to have an updated version of it. You don't refresh your closet and put the same clothes in it and call it a day. It would be called a clean up.

    I would expect a refresh to be the same chip with higher clock and/or unlocked shaders (and maybe more ram).
     
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  19. fry178

    fry178 Maha Guru

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    @angelgraves13
    i see it the same way (regarding IQ), but that doesnt mean thats the case for everyone on this planet.
    same reason ppl are driving +2M $ bugattis, while (most) others will drive a car for 100 times less, but that doesnt mean we shouldn't have them, or that no one will buy stuff "not really needed".
     
  20. Dragam1337

    Dragam1337 Ancient Guru

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    You can argue semantics all you want.

    Fact of the matter is that a refresh with higher clocks, but otherwise identical chip, or a "rebrand" with identical clocks is the same thing... they will both clock to exactly the same point in msi afterburner, making any pre OC clock differences mean absolute jack sh1t.

    680 that got refreshed/rebranded to 770 is a perfect example of this.
     

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