Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jul 2, 2019.
Please provide a link to these prices or stop spreading false info.
While I agree with most of your post as it regards to free market practise I still feel there's a problem with the GPU market as a whole, currently we are dealing with an oligarchy with 2 major players AMD and Nvidia and Nvidia as far as High end is concerned has the monopoly and while you say nobody should be able to dictate what price they sell their products which I agree for the most part, when we are dealing with a monopoly of a market things aren't as black and white and if you look at the mining craze and how Nvidia made a big mistake with the increased inventory of 10 series cards which they where unable to to sell due to the drop in mining then you can clearly see their motivation to increase prices for the 20 series to recoup losses for their mistake, the consumer should not be left holding the bill because Nvidia ****** up but with the current price model that's exactly what's happening, it's price gouging in it's purist form.
The reality is, no matter what the prices, our only option is to not buy, and if that works, great! if it doesn't, that sucks. But that's our only option, we don't have a say in anything else, or avenue, for anything else. Which was the entire point.
The whole part of if nvidia is price gouging or not, is fairly irrelevant as it doesn't change our one ability: Buy or not buy based off what we feel is valuable or not.
Yeah totally, best option for the consumer is to not buy and wait for the next product or lower prices or buy the competitors product but voicing your opinion online is also good as it can effect other consumers into not buying as well and in all honesty it's good to vent frustration.
Rant incoming...So...instead of just an xx80 Ti, we now get an xx60 Ti, and an xx70 Ti with these "Super" cards. Doubt this will be the new structure (even though we've seen somewhat similar before) and it's probably just to combat the AMD release (I hope). Can't say I ever liked waiting for the Ti release in the first place. If you have it, release it at a fair price and we'll buy it! That's probably the thing I like least about Nvidia, even though I like and buy their cards. They've got some smart folks in marketing though. Hence it's working, so they keep doing it. Gotta wait for the great. Didn't get my money this gen though. Daddy ain't paying over a grand to upgrade his 1080 Ti. This is probably the longest I have kept a card since my 5870 which I had for about 3 years. Those were the days. I had so many ATI cards and even ran the glorious hybrid crossfire with mismatched GPU's during the ATI 4000 days. Makes me ponder the prices. Radeon 4850 was $199. Radeon 4870 was $299.My 5870 was $379. Make no mistake! My 5870 was a top dog, baller, halo card when it released! I understand inflation, but crap's gone skyward! What the F happened after the Nvidia 600 series with the prices? That's when Nvidia really started to take off, but the prices kept rising. I'll end my rant by saying that I love this hobby, but it's getting prohibitively expensive to hang at the top rung. A console with an XIM is starting to look that much more attractive when the next gen Xbox and PS launch. Hang me. Crucify me. But I've seen a lot, and I don't like what I've been seeing lately.
I hope that the gpu market will eventually start producing worthwhile exciting products again , this stagnation and disappointing releases at insulting prices Makes me sad . But i am optimistic just look at the CPU market ! After years of stagnation we are finally seeing competition and great exciting products being released , from both players. If AMD and Nvidia fails to deliver maybe Intel will surprise us ( I hope ) .
Amazon not enough?
Did you really just link to a leaked pre-order page that isn't even available anymore? lol
I mean these screen grabs were taken before the cards were even announced.....
So how about instead of grabbing screen grabs from wccftech that were posted by accident by amazon before the announced prices by nvidia, you think logically and wait for the GPUs to be released.
Your "examples" that were requested from you are clearly not live, purchasable examples. Unless you have proof of an ACTUALLY PURCHASABLE RTX 2060 super or 2070 super for those prices, and nothing below them (You did state afterall "2060S for >$500 and 2070S at >$600.") then you have nothing to show for your statements. Stop spreading mis-information as requested, since you have no verifiable information, and it's not July 9th.
Here's the link to your stated $499 Super RTX 2060 card:
Here's the link to your stated $599 Super RTX 2070 card:
A lot of REALLLLY useful information on those pages.....
And just to be SUPER(haha, get it?) clear, i'm not saying these GPUs won't be the exact prices leaked. They could be, that's EVGAs decisions. But this idea that EVGAs potential decisions for these two cards, if true on their pricing, means, and i quote from you "2060S for >$500 and 2070S at >$600." for all other companies and all other EVGA versions of these cards......only a mad man would come to that conclusion.
Those were place holder prices. And the links were pulled down.
Considering the fact that new cards typically are released every year, but in this case its 10 months, your statement is completely misinformed and irrational. In fact, i believe you might have a case of acute nVidia derangement syndrome like so many amd fanboys have.
It's actually 9 and a half. I know, i know, ...
Honestly it's a short time span for a refresh. This said RTX value was obviously not good at launch and anybody who bought one of these have only himself to blame (and maybe some reviewers who went easy on these non super cards imo). I have a 1070 and i did not even slightly entertain buying a non super RTX card.
It's really not.
Someones definition of a refresh can change, so some people may have an issue on what i'm calling a refresh, but fact of the matter, everything listed here is either the same architecture or a slightly new one. And no, not all the prices will be exactly the same, even between generations they generally aren't.
GTX 1080 to 1080 ti = 9 months 11 days. Now, i know, the Ti cost $100 more then the 1080, while costing the same as the 1080 FE. More importantly, the 1080 ti caused:
Titan X to XP = 8 months 4 days. GTX 1080 ti directly caused this one as the GTX 1080 ti...beat the Titan X for massively less cost.
GTX 980 to 980 ti = 8 months 15 days.
GTX 780 to 780 ti = 5 months 15 days.
GTX 660 ti to 760 = 10 months 9 days.
GTX 480 to 580 = 7 months 14 days.
Now i realize that not all of these cards were the same price, and could be considered "not replacements", but not only did most of them cause price drops for the tier it replaced, but....i really wonder about that idealogy. As if that's the issue one has with this list, what exactly are you saying? That the Super cards released now should have been more expensive while keeping the previous releases? I can't see an issue with releasing refreshed cards to replace the cards at the same price points. For instance i think people would be more then happy if the RTX 2060 super was $349 rather then $399.......
But point being is, every generation, within 9ish months there's always a new card releasing somewhere, either to completely replace, or to be inserted at a different price and shifting other prices around. If people haven't realized that every 9 months or so there's going to be some change-up, i just really wonder how well people have been paying attention to hardware. Obviously there can be larger gaps as well, and shorter, as shown here, but 9 months for a new release of graphics cards is simply not unheard of or early based of history.
^ Not even the half of it. Consumers frequently buy GPUs within a few weeks or months of the release of new gen cards, even knowing there are new cards about to arrive.
Almost as quiet at the MSI RTX 2070 Gaming X... with a reference cooler.
these video card making companies (RED & GREEN) never factored in the possibility of the mining craze ending so abruptly.....
their GAMING sector sales to us gamers were chicken feed compared to the miners sales.
Prices just went batshit crazy for mere mortal gamers like me...
My last decent card is still in my Ryzen system MSI GTX 1080 Gaming X...it was just under £500....it will play any game in my Steam library....i refuse to spend my dollars on fancy RTX jobbies and like others here will wait for the next generation..or pick up a used RTX 2080Ti!.
A refresh is the same chip renamed... 980 ti and 1080 ti are much bigger chips than their non-ti counterparts, and has absolutely nothing to do with a refresh...
Then by that logic none of the RTX super series is a refresh. Except for the 2080 Super which hasn't been released yet.
But no, that's definitely not the definition of a resfresh.
Graphics cards have had "new generations" with all new naming but same basic technology behind it labeled as a refresh. Why? Because it's refreshing the whole architecture, it's not a new one. Sometimes there's slight changes in this, but they are the same backbone either way.
Good example of this: G8x vs the G9x GPUs, or aka (mostly) the 8000 vs the 9000. The 9000 series was a refresh of the 8000 series, this has been pretty much a common statement, in fact it's a big reason why there was a decent amount of people who did not like the 9000 series, as they claimed it wasn't worth it and they wanted more. This is despite the fact that they went from 90nm down to 65 and 55nm as well as lowered the prices. Was still labeled a refresh and people wanted more.
Because there's no absolute definition, and therefore everyone has a slightly different definition of a refresh, is why i posted, which you apparently did not read:
And i feel i'm being pretty reasonable in stating that my definition of a refresh is anything that is not directly a new architecture. It's anything a company has already released fully, or partially, and releasing later to save money on having to have a completely new architecture and cost associated with it so soon, to save money but still be releasing "new" products. This can be the same price point, or shifting price points, or creating price points. It's all released after the main products to create a refresh that people will hopefully be interested in and drumming up sales.
By that logic the super cards are just precisly refreshes, as the chips are identical... just a new revision with more of the passive clusters activated.
And the difference between a 980 ti and a titan X (Maxwel) is? the difference between a 1080 ti and a titan X (pascal) is?
No matter which way you try and turn this and create an argument for literally no reason, your point won't be made. Since no matter which way you try and claim it's not a refresh, it will be flipped on you with historical information.
So instead of trying to create an argument for literally zero reasons, you move along.
The examples you used before were 980 vs 980 ti and 1080 vs 1080 ti... these gpu's does in no way use the same chips. The ti models use considerably larger chips, meaning that they can in no way be considered a refresh.
The titans have always just been the same chip used by the TI model, just with an additional cluster activated, as a way for nvidia to justify their greed.