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Review: AMD Ryzen 5 3600X Six core processor

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jul 19, 2019.

  1. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    I don't know why you think 75c is when you need to start worrying. Both my 4790K and 7820x ran over 75c for years with no issues and that's with liquid cooling - on the stock coolers you can find people running them at 85c. I also find it weird that 75c is when "you need to start worrying" but under a torture test this only hits 72c. The average temps in gaming will probably be far under that. Seems way better than normal for a stock cooler and that's also the conclusion most reviewers come to.
     
    Evildead666 likes this.
  2. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    The Fx processors had a safe point of 65c and below, with 75c being the point your IMC began to significantly leak voltage and degrade, it seems to be carrying over to Ryzen for some reason but they are rated for 95c or something around that point
     
  3. Aura89

    Aura89 Ancient Guru

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    Again, no. This is not for you to decide, nor anyone else.

    If you want to call what is enthusiast for yourself, then by all means, do it, but claiming you get to decide what others are enthusiasts of, and claiming you get to decide what companies label their enthusiast products as, you must have one hell of a large ego to think you get to decide these things.

    And if you continue to assert that you do get to say this information, then this conversation is over, as it's pointless to have a discussion with someone who thinks their word is all.

    As long as its stable, there shouldn't be an issue. And if you want better cooling, then you can get better cooling. The reality is this "complaint" doesn't make sense because it implies that giving a cooler, that you can use, for a stable system, or not use if you want a better cooling, is somehow a bad thing?

    As i said before i just don't understand really what the complaint is here. Intel doesn't provide you with a CPU cooler more often then not, and when it does, it's horribly inadequate, whereas AMD provides relatively decent cooler that will keep your system stable, and if you want better cooling, you can buy better cooling rather then be forced to have to.

    To me it just seems like you expect AMD to bring an "amazing" CPU cooler as stock, undercutting CPU heatsink manufacturers which'll piss them off, and providing better cooling when it's not needed for many people.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2019
  4. Evildead666

    Evildead666 Maha Guru

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    That's just complete bulls#!t, sorry.
     

  5. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    Last edited: Jul 27, 2019
  6. Goiur

    Goiur Master Guru

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    Former AMD engineer, thats a solid source of information right there... but that guy/girl could be my mother for all i know.
     
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  7. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    ok
    https://www.amd.com/en/products/specifications/processors

    filter by Fx family and scroll left till you see "Max Temps"

    its not like Fx safe temps have been discussed for a decade or anything... oh wait.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2019
  8. Goiur

    Goiur Master Guru

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    That source may be valid (until further investigation), but my point is... are you sure that the guy posting is a former AMD engineer or you just need to give some made up info in every post you write.
     
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  9. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    I'm pretty sure Cliff Maier was definitely with AMD
     
  10. Aura89

    Aura89 Ancient Guru

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    Yes and i spoke to Gabe Newell about Half-Life 3 which is coming out in this september.

    ....

    I feel like you're purposely not getting the point, regardless if it's correct or not.

    Someone called you out for your information that didn't include your source.

    You then stated your source was a "former AMD engineer", which means squat, since you still did not link to where you got this information, but you did provide a link to another forum which states information contradicting the information you posted by having a lower temperature.

    You then were called out on this, as you didn't show who or where this information was provided, and it could be anyone and all we have is your word.

    So again you come back without your source, again, but provided AMDs direct website listing information that shows you are incorrect.....again. No where on there does it state that, and i'll quote, "The Fx processors had a safe point of 65c and below, with 75c being the point your IMC began to significantly leak voltage and degrade,", in fact it states that the MAX temperatures range anywhere from 57 degrees, to 90 degrees, depending on what specific FX series processor you had. There's not a single 65 or 75 in there. But even their own website doesn't realistically make sense. It states that the FX-8150 had a max-temp of 61 degrees...what does that mean? above 61 degrees it fails? I mean we know that's not right, plenty of reviews showcase that it is, or can, run higher temperatures then that. So what's the "max temperature" even mean on AMDs website?

    [​IMG]

    So then you come back and reply with what i have quoted. You have finally "listed" your source, by name, but have not actually shown your source' information, where Cliff Maier stated this number you stated wasn't YOUR number but instead Cliff Maiers number.

    So what are you not getting about what is being asked of you?

    If you don't have a link to Cliff Maier, or proof of any kind that he stated your original statement, then say so!

    Otherwise it's just going to keep going on and on and on, about the specific question being asked of you, which is "What is your source, link it, and is there a way to state whatever is being linked is actually written by the guy who you are claiming it is coming from?"

    If this can't be answered then state it as such so this back and forth can end since you seem completely unwilling to answer the actual question that has been asked of you.
     
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  11. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    Sometimes the sources can't be linked (email exchange) or is a recollection from a thread on a defunct forum,

    or the source was a reddit post whose user deleted their account

    Regardless, step off - the information was legitimate, Fx processors can enter thermal runaway at their voltages if they exceed their max temp and decay ensues.

    MrInfinit3 as a former contracted employee frequently brings up the imc decay temp, ask him about it. Your hunts are boring.
     
  12. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Support your claim with actual evidence, please. Like benchmarks of Zen2 CPU with 5700 XT on PCIe 4.0 against PCIe 3.0.

    Wait, Even 2080Ti is on PCIe 3.0.
    As for the chipsets comparison insanity. Cheapest to cheapest Z370 is 60% more costly than B450. And on upper limits, Z370 has boards 2.5 times as costly as most expensive B450.
    What are you even proposing here? Price comparison for Z370 should be to X470.

    And if you go to H370 vs. B450, there is CPU selection. Zen2 offers 65W chips that will not exceed this limit at max clock. While intel offers comparable chips where 65W means base clock on all cores, not turbo. So, you'll have to pay more for H370 just to get most of your CPU.
    Smartest choice for H370 could be i7-8700(non-K) which is 6C/12T 65W of intel's TDP and 3.2 ~ 4.6GHz.
    And at same CPU price you'll get Zen2 3700X which is 8C/16T 65W AMD's TDP and 3.6 ~ 4.4GHz (higher IPC)... therefore good 25~35% total performance of chip.

    And if you enforced AMD's power draw limits to i7-8700, it would be sorry look at performance.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2019
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  13. Evildead666

    Evildead666 Maha Guru

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    https://www.amd.com/en/products/cpu/fx-9590

    I'll give you that something does indeed look fishy with the FX series "Max Temps" values on AMD's site, and elsewhere.
    Thats the sort of link you need to backup your initial post, so you don't get this sort of reply.
    (How can you have a max temp of 57°C on a 220W chip ?) I'll be reading in to this some more.

    Its does seem related to the 32nm SOI implementation though, so where you imply the correlation with it carrying over to 7nm is a tad baiting.
    There have been many process and node changes inbetween then and now, and for this part, i stand by my Bullsh!t statement. ;)
     
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  14. moo100times

    moo100times Member Guru

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    Episode VI: Return of the Troll (I'm not going to quote more of your drivel). Misrepresentation, trying to present old arguments as new, fake and poor sources, combative language, name calling, general baiting and some blatent lies and fiction. I see you have gone all out for the sequel. AMD must be hitting you where it hurts.
     
  15. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    you're cute, ignorant and wrong but cute.

    In other news, i just made this thread https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/d...-in-the-form-of-a-beta-chipset-driver.427800/

    the ryzen balanced profile in this chipset driver is much better than the current release driver, give it a try with your ryzen 3k.


    Few years ago I would have took this as being because the higher voltages on the 9xxx chips would enter thermal runaway faster but for that you'd need uncontrolled cooling which nobody would be doing with a 220w processor.

    Rather its the fact that Voltage and Heat together increase the rate in which electrons can hop across oxide barriers, (ie, Quantum tunneling), and this can mean a you get a 1 instead of a 0 (and a bugcheck) in normal cases, or actual damage to a part that is sensitive to rogue electrons in the worst.

    in the case of the Fx series, rogue electrons could easily damage the IMC, in the Ryzen 3k series amd have allowed for the chiplets to use more voltage to sustain higher boosts whilst reducing heat via the microprocess change whilst allowing the chip to heat up more.

    by splitting the IO components from the cpu cores, they have removed a worst case scenario of a core leaking an electrode into the IMC and destroying it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2019

  16. Evildead666

    Evildead666 Maha Guru

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    This is getting way off topic, but I think the FX series was probably due to a leaky implementation of the SOI process on 32nm.
    It looks like the 32nm was working "ok" and then they decided to dope it with SOI, and it didn't work out so well.

    From what I can tell, up to the "Max Temp", the chip should work just fine.
    Once you go over the Max temp, leakage starts, and starts bad.
    From then, you just HAVE to add more voltage, and generate more heat, to get any more clocks.

    I wouldn't expect any damage to the chip unless voltages or temperatures were exceeded though, and I don't mean the 57°C Max temps, but the usual 90/100°C Temps.
    You don't tend to get electron migration until you really put high voltage through it, and push higher clocks.
    You won't get electron migration or any damage at/around 57°C, that's 100% guaranteed. You couldn't sell a chip that got damage that early. ;)

    (I haven't delved deeply into the history if this yet, there must be loads on the internet forums about it, OC.UK etc...).
     
  17. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    Ah, Electromigration.
    with voltages so high you'd need to keep temps low to counter conductors and insulations just being eaten away, where as you can allow higher temps on processors that use lower voltage.

    I honestly forget what the IMC ran at on the Fx parts, that was VDDR, and VMEM/DDR is the 1.5 or 1.65 signalling voltage for the dram itself?
     
  18. vbetts

    vbetts Don Vincenzo Staff Member

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    Alright, FX talk is over.

    Back to Ryzen talk.
     
  19. Evildead666

    Evildead666 Maha Guru

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    For another time/forum ;)

    edit : Sorry VBetts, just saw your post.
     
  20. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    In other topics, theres only about a day left till AMD unveils whatever they are doing with the placeholder topic, be interesting to see benchmarks re done when they're done.
     

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