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Requesting Scanline Sync Tutorial

Discussion in 'Rivatuner Statistics Server (RTSS) Forum' started by EerieEgg, Nov 2, 2018.

  1. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    This is due to tearline jitter. You're not getting two tearlines at the same time. It's just that the tearline jitters very fast between the upper and lower position.

    You need to lower GPU load to make this better, and/or use SyncFlush=1, or SyncFlush=2.
     
  2. bapt33

    bapt33 Member

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    really? this game is low gpu usage im like 50% 65% max, ive got game with higher gpu usage and scanline work well. syncflush is set to 1 and all other game work well ... but when i see the top tearline vibrate i can see the bottom tearline fixed, and this bottom tearline nevr move even if the gpu usage change, only the top tearline move like crazy. So there is two tearline at the same time...
    maybe this game isnt good optimized right now?
    I know too its the unreal engine 4 maybe scanline dont work well with that engine?
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
  3. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    @bapt33 Are you sure you're using normal mode and not x*2?
     
  4. bapt33

    bapt33 Member

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    yep sure ive check it il right in normal and not x2 at 60fps as the other game, it seems better by increasing the scanline value from - 60 to - 30, usually i need decrease the scanline value to make the tearline up and disappear, in this game it seems the reverse, need increase scanline value to make tearline go up. anyway when i go over - 60 there is 2 tearline and thats really weird
     

  5. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    @bapt33 Yeah, s-sync is not guaranteed to give the same results in all games. SyncFlush=2 is a brute force way to get accurate tearline positions, but it might result in stutter.
     
  6. bapt33

    bapt33 Member

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    yes ive i see this, im right now in Syncflush=1 and im happy with that, i prefer a little tearing sometimes than stutter, i really cant deal with stutter :p
     
  7. bapt33

    bapt33 Member

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    @RealNC
    ive just see something strange, while my framerate is constant (60fps) my frametime looks crazy, im not sure if afterbruner say right, but thats what i have after a BFV game.
    [​IMG]
    I dont feel any input delay when i play, in game say all time 16.6ms, but the graph say that ... hmmm
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
  8. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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  9. bapt33

    bapt33 Member

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    @RealNC
    after asking on reddit, it seems the frametime graph is wrong, bad detection algorythm from afterburner.
     
  10. Unwinder

    Unwinder Moderator Staff Member

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    “Bad detection algorythm” explanation is given by the person having zero understanding of it. A few keywords for searching and starting thinking: framerate smoothing, framerate averaging interval, maximum frametime per polling period.
     

  11. boogieman

    boogieman Ancient Guru

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  12. PhazDelta

    PhazDelta Member

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    how activated SyncFlush ? i can't see any option in Rtss
     
  13. Unwinder

    Unwinder Moderator Staff Member

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    Try to read RTSS development thead. This option is not for beginners and it is assumed that you're power user able to search to use that.
     
  14. amon

    amon New Member

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    Hi Unwinder, i want explain you a problem, i use Scanline Sync and is a wonderful feature but i got one problem...
    I have 1080p 60hz native display and i use my games with custom resolution nvidia, like 2160p or 1440p; well, when the games start with custom res, them are locked to 30fps and i ll get 60fps only if i select 1080p from game and then custom res. But i need to do this each time i launch the games :/

    If game is already on 1080p start with 60fps...the problem only occur when the game is with custom res.
    i haven't tried yet last rivatuner 7.2.1 so dunno if is ok with last version, i ll try asap.

    I have tried to set desktop directly with custom resolution, but nothing change. Only the switch on the fly set native res in the games unlock the frame and make it work on other resolutions.

    Hope i have explained the main problem.

    i have framelimiter 0 and scanline sync -30

    edit
    tried 7.2.1 nothing...i need to switch 1080p and then custom to unlock fps to 60, it start always with 30fps when custom res is selected
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2018
  15. MrBonk

    MrBonk Ancient Guru

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    So I didn't realize before SS can be used in Windows 7 with Aero off in borderless windowed in order to get Vsync. My mind is considered blown as this is a huge boon for emulators that don't offer FSE and problematic games that are stupid and don't run in FS properly or don't offer it (Unity).

    This also fixes the ugly massive stuttering in an Emulator like PPSSPP. (I still seem to be getting some tearing though. I'll have to play around with this)
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
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  16. alexander1986

    alexander1986 Member Guru

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    So I have some amazing results with scanline sync when playing fortnite on my lightboosted 120 hz monitor @ 120 fps, no tearing no stutter and no motion blur + very low input lag if any compared to just 120 fps limit,

    just have a question, in my case, should i set SyncTimeout to 0,1, or 8333 for best result ?


    If I understand it correctly, setting it to 0 will not disable synchronization if framerate falls below monitor refreshrate, traditional vsync with low input lag? (but if framerate drops below 120 at any point, it will still synchronize and that can have negative effect on input perhaps is my thought?)

    setting it to 1 will calibrate timeout automatically and RTSS will benchmark or monitor framerate and disable the sync if framerate drops below refreshrate? (does this take up resources though? like cpu/gpu time and add load or delay maybe?

    and setting it to 8333 will be kind of like adaptive vsync with low inputlag for 120 hz, allowing tearing and disabling sync if framerate drops below refreshrate, in this case 120 hz/8.33 ms? (feels like this is best idea in my case?)

    Ive been reading about the timeout value here:

    https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4173

    and am not really sure what would be best in my case for the lowest input lag, I presume its best to set it so that it disables the sync if framerate falls below refreshrate, since in my case its used for competitive play in a FPS, my FPS is at 120 fps for a large majority of the time but if/when it drops, I wonder what the timeout should be set to for best effect :p

    hope this makes sense, thanks !
     
  17. mdrejhon

    mdrejhon Member Guru

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    Made some minor updates to the HOWTO.

    Blur Busters Scanline Sync HOWTO
    Version 1.1

    Summary
    1. It works with any GPU. And any display including CRT.
    2. You need a very powerful GPU
    3. You need to try to get your 0.1% frametime no more than a refresh cycle. Upgrade GPU, decrease Hz, decrease detail, etc.
    4. If properly configured, it looks like a lagless version of VSYNC ON.
    5. If improperly configured, it will look like an ugly mess.
    6. It can help make ULMB stutterless without the lag.
    7. There's a way to get S-Sync working with Fast Sync and Enhanced Sync too
    8. Enable the Scanline Sync hotkeys, it makes calibration easier (arrow keys to move the tearline UP/DOWN)

    Scanline Sync can give you glassfloor frametimes in certain games .... A perfect 18-20ms lag glassfloor is always better than 16.7ms with lots of 33ms spikes.

    Enable the Hotkeys to manually move the tearline up/down Add SyncHotkeys=1 to your config file to enable shortcuts. Hold CTRL+SHIFT while using UP/DOWN arrow to move the tearline up and down.

    Calibration & Tuning Mantra: Always calibrate RTSS Scanline Sync with keyboard using VSYNC OFF first before turning VSYNC ON / Enhanced Sync / NVIDIA Fast Sync!
    The tearline position is a wonderfully excellent visual calibration indicator.

    Combining RTSS ScanLine Sync with your preferred sync mode:
    VSYNC OFF:
    Calibrate tearline offscreen
    VSYNC ON: Calibrate tearline to stay permanently above bottom edge
    Fast Sync: Calibrate tearline to stay permanently above bottom edge
    Enhanced Sync: Calibrate tearline to stay permanently above bottom edge
    Once you finish calibrating, switch to your preferred sync mode.

    Tearline vibrates too much? (e.g. 1/4th screen height vibrations or worse)? Move the tearline onscreen and work hard to calm down your tearline first! Temporarily ignore the lag during this calibration stage, and focus on calming down the tearline first. Try increasing SyncFlush numbers by 1. Use SyncFlush 1. Also, lower refresh rates produce calmer tearlines. And lower CPU%, lower GPU% utilization will produce calmer tearlines too. Turning off certain features like AA will also produce calmer tearlines. If you are running very old games that always stay well below GPU 50%, try SyncFlush 2 as that produces very tranquil & calm tearlines. (Don't worry, the crazy increase in GPU% will be more than compensated by the complete lack of lag spikes; keep reading. That shiny glass floor lag beckons!). Remember, the calmer the tearline, the more likely it stays permanently near one location. Fiddle until you see your tearline calm down (vibrating consistently in a reasonably tight vertical space rather than all over the vertical dimension of the screen). The calmer the tearline, the more likely it stays permanently away from the bottom edge of screen. Thereby avoiding lag spikes if using another sync mode than VSYNC OFF. Tearlines that dips below bottom edge of screen exactly equals a latency spike if you were running FastSync instead of VSYNC OFF.

    Framerates often below Hz: If your game cannot sustain framerate equal refresh rate, you WILL get lag spikes (with accompanying microstutter), no matter what. So lower your refresh rate and/or upgrade your GPU and/or adjust game detail and/or reduce AA.

    Occasional framerate dips: For using scanline sync with VSYNC OFF, you ideally prefer 99.9% framerate matching refresh rate. But for combining Scanline Sync with Fast Sync / Enhanced Sync, it is okay if there's occasional framerate dips -- such as disk access -- e.g. you're able to sustain full framerate matching refresh rate 90%+ to 95%+ of the time, so just aim for the 90th or 95th percentile of permanence. For emulators or older games, it's easy to aim at the 99th+ percentile though, but for newer games, just merely getting 90th percentile can sometimes be hard. A stutter will be a visual indicator of a lag spike, so if you're getting stutters during competitive-critical gameplay, then you definitely want to calibrate for framerate permanence above that, to improve aiming during critical heated moments. You might not be able to do anything about those disk access stutters, but at least you've calibrated for your critical moments.

    Extra safety margin: For all of modes other than VSYNC OFF -- I recommend moving the tearline least 1/10th screen height above the bottommost visible tearline (where the tearline vibrates downwards to). Basically you should have a 1/10th area above bottom edge of screen that you've never seen the tearline vibrate downwards to. This gives you "padding". This adds 1/10th refresh cycle extra lag (~1.6ms at 60Hz) but will eliminate your lag spikes during Fast Sync, etc. If you're trying to synchronize at 120Hz or 144Hz, try 1/5th screen height of padding above bottom edge of screen.

    What about SyncScanLine1 for twice framerate versus refresh rate?:
    - If unfamiliar with this, keep SyncScanLine1 setting to 0. Worry only about one tearline (SyncScanLine0 or via GUI)
    - Even if you do this, please do the easy stuff first before attempting this

    If your game is ultra-low GPU (e.g. Quake Live or CS:GO) combined with motion blur reduction, this can reduce strobe lag a further (e.g. 240fps at 120Hz, or 200fps at 100Hz). First, calibrate using VSYNC OFF. You may use two tearlines with Enhanced Sync or Fast Sync -- but not with VSYNC ON (that will frame-throttle you badly). Calibrate the middle tearline to middle of screen (slightly above middle is ideal, to keep it equidistant with the bottommost tearline, but position of middle tearline matters less than the bottommost tearline) but focus on carefully calibrating the bottommost tearline to stay permanently above bottom edge of screen. Ideally, they should be signal-equidistant from each other (half Vertical Total apart, taking into account of VBI versus visible vertical resolution). But this is less critical than keeping the bottommost tearline permanently above bottom edge of screen, in order to avoid those lag spikes during Fast Sync and Enhanced Sync.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2019
  18. Selvin509428

    Selvin509428 New Member

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    [QUOTE = "mdrejhon, post: 5612261, miembro: 179850"] Los cuadros a menudo están por debajo de Hz: si su juego no puede mantener una tasa de actualización igual a la velocidad de los cuadros, a los picos de retraso (con el microtutter que lo acompaña), pase lo que pase. Por lo tanto, reduzcasu frecuencia de actualización y / o actualice su GPU y / o ajuste los detalles del juego y / o reduzca el AA. [/ CITA]
    ¡¡Saludos!! He estado leyendo y tratando de entender todo este procedimiento de sincronización, pero todavía tengo muchas dudas y, por ese motivo, me gustaría hacerle algunas preguntas para que me ayuden a comprender mejor y aplicar esos beneficios de sincronización en mis juegos. preomero ¿Qué configuración y cómo jugar a 30 fps en 60 hz monitor con la carga del gpu por encima del 80% (ya que mi gpu no es bueno se mantiene en el límite de%) para jugar con la menor demora posible, sin disparar ni rasgar? Espero que me haya explicado bien. Apreciaría enormemente su ayuda y su paciencia.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2019
  19. Selvin509428

    Selvin509428 New Member

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    [QUOTE = "mdrejhon, post: 5612261, miembro: 179850"] Los cuadros a menudo están por debajo de Hz: si su juego no puede mantener una tasa de actualización igual a la velocidad de los cuadros, a los picos de retraso (con el microtutter que lo acompaña), pase lo que pase. Por lo tanto, reduzcasu frecuencia de actualización y / o actualice su GPU y / o ajuste los detalles del juego y / o reduzca el AA. [/ QUOTE]
    regards!! I have been reading and trying to understand all this sync procedure but I still have many doubts and for that reason I would like to ask you some questions to help me better understand and apply those sy sync benefits in my games. preomero What configuration and how to play at 30fps in 60hz monitor with the load of the gpu above 80% (since my gpu is not good is kept at the limit of%) to play with the least delay possible, without shutering or tearing? I hope I have explained myself well. I would greatly appreciate your help and your patience.
     
  20. Litzner

    Litzner Member

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    Do we know which of the combinations of scanline sync methods, if any, cause the least amount of CPU overhead? Say SyncFlush=0 + SyncScanLine0=1 + FastSync for instance?

    Also, I can never see a scanline or be able to adjust it with CTRL+SHIFT+Up\Down when using SyncFlush=0/1/2 + SyncScanLine0=200 + NoVSync. I can only see a tear when fps drops below refresh rate. I don't understand why, am I doing something wrong or am I just blind. I assume the tear would be near the bottom 1/5 of the screen on that occasion.
     

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