Real benefits of HBM?

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon' started by Screwdriver, Aug 28, 2015.

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  1. Screwdriver

    Screwdriver Banned

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    Did AMD ever test Fuji with DDR5 and then saw a performance benefit with HBM? I mean I know the advantages as told by AMD, but just curious if the speed benefit was real or was it propaganda to get them towards HBM2 and to also say they were the first.
     
  2. Barry J

    Barry J Ancient Guru

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    I would imagine a little of both
     
  3. ---TK---

    ---TK--- Ancient Guru

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    Gddr5 memory bandwidth on a 980ti or the 390 390x retreads have mode than enough bandwidth. I don't see any benefit other than power consumption until gddr5 becomes a bottleneck. That won't happen before hbm though.
     
  4. Hootmon

    Hootmon Maha Guru

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    Yeah...

    DDR5 is beginning to approach a 'diminishing returns' zone with its narrower/faster design. Its probably good for a few more iterations before something else will be required.

    A fatter/slower approach will allow more data to be pushed in comparison as going forward.
     

  5. Screwdriver

    Screwdriver Banned

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    More than enough, but maybe with HBM they might of been faster?
     
  6. Loophole35

    Loophole35 Ancient Guru

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    Most of the improvement is in the space saving of having the RAM stacks on the imposer and the power efficiency. We really didn't have a bandwidth issue.
     
  7. ---TK---

    ---TK--- Ancient Guru

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    Overclocking vram on a 384 bit bus 980ti yields little gains, that why I just run it slightly oc. 512 bit 390 390x has more than enough bandwidth as well.
     
  8. Truder

    Truder Ancient Guru

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    I think it'll be more a case of in terms of trickle down technology is where we'll see the benefits.

    If we look at the mid-range, memory bandwidth is a bottleneck, when ocing the memory does yield better results, but as stated in the highend, memory hasn't been an issue so if we imagine hbm in the midrange segment, the only limitation would be capacity and core configuration/clock.

    This has always been the case with hardware design, the best on the highend and eventually a year later we see the highend technology trickle down to mainstream.
     
  9. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    There never has been "enough" bandwidth for graphics really. And apparently the Fury X seems to scale very well with HBM overclocking. Look at this. He basically got a 20% performance increase out of a 20% increase in memory speed and a 9% performance increase in core speed. It strangely correlates with the findings from this little test/study.

    TL;DR: It matters quite a lot. It would be interesting to see numbers with half the HBM speed, although I bet that HBM also has better timings than GDDR5, since it actually runs in much lower frequencies.
     
  10. ---TK---

    ---TK--- Ancient Guru

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    High end cards have traditionally had plenty of bandwidth and owned many. The only definitive high end cards I have had where overclocking the vram on 680's but that was due to being 256 bit bus. 6ghz oc to 7.2 netted good gains. 580 sli, 780ti sli 980ti sli all had enough bandwidth at stock because they were 384 bit. Overclocking vram on them netted close to zilch. I would rather have 6gb of fast vram 365gb/s than 4 GB of hbm1.
     

  11. Loophole35

    Loophole35 Ancient Guru

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    You do know the moar VRAM argument only worked when AMD had the most on their high end.


    Honestly the Fiji GPU is a nice card had it come out last year just after the 980/970 it would have been awesome. It didn't. It's late to the party which sucks because it takes the wind out of the sails for HBM.
     
  12. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    The numbers correlate that you do get extra speed for the extra bandwidth though. It will never be as much as for the core, but it is far from insignificant, and I bet that for cards so ridiculously parallel as the Fiji ones it matters even more. The 3DMark results of the first I posted kinda show that actually.
     
  13. Loophole35

    Loophole35 Ancient Guru

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    This may be something new we have to learn on HBM as going over 350Gb/s on GDDR5 never really netted much. But this being a new memory configuration the way we understand VRAM bandwidth may be different.
     
  14. Hootmon

    Hootmon Maha Guru

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    +1

    Bus Width and Clock Speeds matter, but so does Latency. HBM shuffles those variables in a new way.
     
  15. thesmokingman

    thesmokingman Member

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    Compare what happens with Nv cards in teh VR space vs the Fury. Also, the advantages of HBM are still untapped. It will take time for developers to capitalize on the massive bandwidth. And that's not all because there's still the huge drop in latency with HBM is driving the foundation for VR. Google it. Nv cards cannot handle VR because their latencies are too great, it makes users nauseous. Btw, propaganda?? :3eyes:


    You realize it is the new standard and everyone is on board right? Nvidia, Samsung, Intel besides AMD and Hynix. There is a major declining slope in regards to power consumption with adding massive amounts of vram like with the Titan X. This is especially prevalent in the high performance computing space where the major players have been tackling the issue with variations on 3D stacking for years.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2015

  16. eclap

    eclap Banned

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    Nope

    384bit bus on the 7950 was again plenty, overclocking the vram yielded next to zero performance.
     
  17. Agonist

    Agonist Ancient Guru

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    Exactly, I left my vram stock. Core clock was a whole different story.
    I had my 7950 crossfire @ 1275 core.
    The 384bit bus was more then enough with 3GB for eyefinity also.
    They were monsters when oc'ed. Better then my 670s I have now.
     
  18. ---TK---

    ---TK--- Ancient Guru

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    Yeah now lowly gdd5 that I got running at 365.4 GB/s is a bottleneck, funny stuff. 512 bit 290, 290x, 390, 390x running at 5ghz for the 200 series and 6ghz for the 300 series. hbm1 would of been better if it were capable of more than 4gb, probably why nvidia is going right to hbm2.
     
  19. Screwdriver

    Screwdriver Banned

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    4gb has not been show to be a bottleneck.....I am sure when it is, even the mighty 980 ti will be yesterdays news.
     
  20. ---TK---

    ---TK--- Ancient Guru

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    Pretty sure a faster card with more vram will be relevant longer than a slower card and less vram.
     
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