Raphael GPU on AMD Ryzen 7000 would get 128 RDNA2 shader cores

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jun 1, 2022.

  1. Hilbert Hagedoorn

    Hilbert Hagedoorn Don Vito Corleone Staff Member

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  2. LEEc337

    LEEc337 Member Guru

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    Can it play crysis...
     
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  3. Undying

    Undying Ancient Guru

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    Why would all ryzen 7000 have igpus? Some of us dont need them it just taking up space in io die or worse have chiplet of its own. Put more cache instead.
     
  4. Venix

    Venix Ancient Guru

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    It is in the i/o chiplet and it seems to be as small as it gets
     
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  5. JamesSneed

    JamesSneed Ancient Guru

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    It's going to be like 1/4" of area in the IO die. Its freaking tiny so its not really a trade off for cache. The server guys want this bad as you don't need to add in a card to get a console up on the machine. Also those of us as home have a nice troubleshooting option if the graphics card is on the blink. This is a great idea. If you want cache just wait for the 3D stacked models that will land early 2023.
     
  6. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    Fine with me. I was a bit annoyed about the idea of including iGPUs since that would drive up the cost of each chip, but this seems to be a sensible and more cost-effective approach. Of the times you'd need an iGPU on a high-end CPU, you don't really need that much performance. No point wasting die space or making chips more expensive when you just need something that can drive a few displays. You also don't want an iGPU hogging all of the memory bandwidth on high-end models.

    I assume AMD will still provide low-end chips (6 core models or lower) will have options for better iGPUs, since those have a reason to need extra on-package performance, and won't be as starved for bandwidth.
     
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  7. tunejunky

    tunejunky Ancient Guru

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    the lede was buried. the news is the 6nm i/o, which takes up considerably less space and uses far less power. the iGPU is just there for what James Sneed said - an option for troubleshooting.

    at first i was shocked as this flew very much under the (local) radar, but then i remembered CES where the OEM's were complaining that (system) returns were up for Ryzen and i asked why (as i used to work for an OEM) and the #1 reason was the gpu (from shipping). as secure as i thought the locking pcie tab is, apparently they were taking hits as a lot of companies have changed packaging (Dell, HP, Asus, Acer, etc..) to be more "green".
    so the inclusion of an iGPU would've saved these companies hundreds of thousands (time, material, brand reputation, shipping back and forth) and a consumer could've easily troubleshot the issue.

    also the Ryzen 6000 (APU) was recently released (and only now getting into mobile) with a fully functional (1080p) gaming iGPU.

    the Ryzen 8000(?) APU using ddr 5 will be coming out next year and rumors have it that it's RDNA 3 and 1440p capable. let's just hope ddr 5 is cheaper then.
     
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  8. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    At first that made a lot of sense, but after thinking about it more, it doesn't make much sense at all.
    For the extra high-end systems (workstations and servers), you're either going to need a dGPU or no GPU at all. For the especially niche systems that need basic display functionalities but a lot of cores, we're not talking tens of thousands of units being produced, so it isn't that great of an expense to add a low-end dGPU.
    For mobile systems, embedded systems, mini PCs, family/office PCs, and HTPCs, AMD produces APUs that would get the job done. Granted, much of those chips are BGA, but OEMs have plenty of experience with that.
    As for gaming PCs, high-clocked 6 and 8 core models are the most sensible choice. AMD doesn't sell any with an iGPU, but... if it's a gaming PC then you want a dGPU anyway, so it's a non-issue.

    So, what other market is there that would warrant an iGPU that AMD does not currently cater to?
    Knowing AMD's track record with iGPUs, I wouldn't hold my breath for RDNA3, but I'd like to be proven wrong.
     
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  9. Venix

    Venix Ancient Guru

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    Honestly I like it since it is so underpowered and so small on the I/o die ... If only for the extra display port and HDMI that would not be useless connectors other than that I do not care :p
     
  10. FlyBy

    FlyBy Active Member

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    +1 for the iGPU.
    When I need to take my GPU out for cleaning, testing another one, etc.. it's not that easy anymore with this 5900X, with my previous Intel system I could switch to iGPU for a few hours.

    Now I run this Intel behind my 4K TV as my HTPC, with the iGPU, 4k@60fps Youtube, Netflix, Desktop. Without that iGPU I would need a loud, dusty, bulky, noisy and-not-for-free dGPU.
    The 8700k makes a damn good HTPC, thanks to it's iGPU. I wish my 5900X had the same "option".
     
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  11. cucaulay malkin

    cucaulay malkin Ancient Guru

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    think about office cpus
     
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  12. user1

    user1 Ancient Guru

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    office machines most likely.
     
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  13. waltc3

    waltc3 Maha Guru

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    It's definitely true, although I don't know the exact number shaders, etc.--great for Internet, email, etc. Or to use temporarily in lieu of a discrete GPU. AMD says a lot of businesses have to have a low-powered IGP capable of office work or the CPU is no good for them, because they will not buy discrete GPUs. Not meant to replace an APU, though, which AMD says they will still be selling for AMD 5.
     
  14. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    I did... have you not read my post? High-end office PCs would work fine with with something like a 6900HS. It's BGA but it doesn't matter because how many offices are going to replace the CPU?
     
  15. cucaulay malkin

    cucaulay malkin Ancient Guru

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    every single one eventually
     

  16. Silva

    Silva Ancient Guru

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    Most Intel CPUs have an iGPU, and let me tell ya: for gaming they're worthless but when your GPU goes to crap, being able to still turn your PC and do light work is amazing.
    My old 2500K is now my mothers PC and the GPU at the time progressed to my build. It would be more expensive to put a dedicated GPU on that system and wouldn't be used to its full potential.
    So yes, I agree every CPU need even a simple iGPU. What I don't get is why don't AMD put a bigger GPU die on the place of a Zen die and have a killer APU right there.
    Just add 8Gb HBM2 on top and they'd kill every less than 300€ GPU on the market.
     
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  17. Aura89

    Aura89 Ancient Guru

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    I feel like because the iGPU is included in the i/o chiplet the worries that it increases cost is unwarrented, it'd likely be more expensive to have two seperate i/o chiplets and dividing up orders then ordering them all the same.

    As to the usefulness, it's useful no matter the setup, just from a troubleshooting standpoint. There's really no time being able to troubleshoot if your graphics card is an issue that having an iGPU wouldn't be benefitial.
     
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  18. tunejunky

    tunejunky Ancient Guru

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    they were talking about product sold w/ ryzen 3. as there is no iGPU, GPU's were required in the systems sold. the reason i stated is exactly what i said it was exactly at the scale i'm talking about.

    the #1 reason for the return was the GPU not making full contact due to shipping.

    this is not some mythical tale. having an iGPU in those systems that were sold would've made this a simple issue instead of a return. projecting those sales with the new CPU's is no stretch because that's exactly where the oem CPUs go.
    the need for the utility is already there and the new gen gives it.
     
  19. tunejunky

    tunejunky Ancient Guru

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    mic drop
    [​IMG]
     
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  20. CPC_RedDawn

    CPC_RedDawn Ancient Guru

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    Its a god send for people when troubleshooting issues. If your GPU dies at least you have a back up to get up and running.

    These are so small on the I/O die they are only meant to push an image to the display and run upto 4K video. They will only be able to play small indie games.
     
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