random reboots ONLY in idle and Windows startup on 3900x/x570 aorus master/trident z neo 2x16 3600

Discussion in 'Processors and motherboards AMD' started by Solfaur, Jul 3, 2021.

  1. Solfaur

    Solfaur Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    7,543
    Likes Received:
    1,000
    GPU:
    GB 3080Ti Gaming OC
    So as the rather long title says I've ran into this damn issue at some point in the last ~1-2 months. The reason why it took me so long to realize what it was is the fact that it NEVER happens during gaming/movies or anything with some kind of load above a potato. And since I'm mostly using this machine for gaming and usually put my PC to sleep instead of shutting down, it simply happened very rarely and I just shrugged it off as some weird thing when it did. But since I had to do some Office work recently, the reboots became too evident and annoying to say the least.


    What basically happens is like a power cut, there's no BSOD whatsoever, just "power cut"-like crash and automatic restart (freaking Kernel 41 in Event Viewer with a sprinkle of 10110 and 10111 which is likely unrelated). This while I'm in Windows idle or doing some VERY light work like Office Word. The other time it happens is just after BIOS screen when booting, basically in Windows startup when then circle starts rolling, it again "cuts power" and reboots, sometimes it happens in a loop before it finally gets into Windows.


    This thing has been on my nerves for the past 3 days, and I searched the web everywhere and while there are a LOT of similar threads I could never come upon a definite “cause”, other than one in my case… and it took me a while. Basically, I ended up “loading optimized defaults” in BIOS and everything went away, did probably like 30 restarts/cold boots and left the PC running in idle for hours. All good. And then I went back into BIOS and done one thing – enable XMP. BAM all the drama started again. Now I’ve had this mobo+cpu+ram combo for almost 2 years, and other than with the factory BIOS which did have some weirdness to it with XMP (similar to what I have now, but not so bad and fix-able), it was quickly fixed by one of the first BIOS updates. I’m currently on F33 (final non-beta) and I flashed to it about 2 months ago when my old 1080Ti started to behave weirdly and somehow messed up my old BIOS to the point where I had to flash it. I’m 99% sure it’s the BIOS that is causing all this mess, but on the other hand since I now have a 3080Ti, I didn’t want to roll back to an older one where XMP ran perfectly fine, since I would lose resizable BAR feature (which works without problems).


    What I tried – in Windows - with no effect whatsoever – power plan disable sleep/screen turn off, processor minimum and maximum power state 100%, disable fast boot, basically giving the CPU all the juice it would possibly need.


    - In BIOS – put on XMP but also set XMP High Frequency Support setting to Level 3 (which is for 3600), put in ram voltage manually at 1.35, 1.36, 1.37, 1.38 – didn’t want to go higher as apparently it didn’t do jack. Also tried changing the idle power state to typical. Now, I didn’t want to fiddle around TOO MUCH simply because with the build and the way Ryzen CPUs work I just didn’t spend too much time tweaking in BIOS like I did with my many Intel setups, but I’m pretty sure there should be some setting that could help me out.


    TL;DR - my question is, is there anyone who had something similar happen, did you fix it somehow? I’m literally at the point where I consider severely gimping myself and have the RAM run at 2133… which is insane considering it was fine for almost 2 years at XMP, just to be rid of this.


    Specs:

    CPU Model: AMD Ryzen 3900X & Noctua NH-D15

    Motherboard: Gigabyte AORUS X570 MASTER @ F33 BIOS

    Ram: 2x16GB G.Skill Trident Z Neo DDR4 3600MHz CL18 F4-3600C18D-32GTZN

    Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce RTX 3080 Ti Gaming OC

    Power Supply: Corsair RM1000i

    OS: Windows 10 Pro 64-bit 21H1
     
  2. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    10,992
    Likes Received:
    4,060
    GPU:
    GTX 1080ti
    This is an issue with some Zen 2 processors and the only resolution is RMA of the cpu.

    Base of the issue is the autoset vid range for the processor is too low for its general asic quality leading to triple exception faults

    Especially if you've turned on PBO and left tuning settings to auto.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2021
  3. Solfaur

    Solfaur Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    7,543
    Likes Received:
    1,000
    GPU:
    GB 3080Ti Gaming OC
    I've run this system with XMP on (everything else on stock/auto except for smart fan curves) for almost 2 years more or less problems free. Can't see how the CPU would degrade so quickly, or could it?

    Either way, I'm pretty sure this is more RAM related specifically with some of the latest BIOS releases. It might be a bug with one of the newer Agesa versions, no idea, since from what I've found not just Gigabyte boards are affected, Asus, MSI etc. as well.

    After some more digging there's a "fix" some people found by changing VDDP - 900 and VDDG - 950 from auto. Apparently some of the newest BIOS releases overvolt these two on auto and cause instability in low power scenarios.

    Knocking on wood, but so far I've done like 30 restarts/cold boots and sat about 3 hours idle in desktop. I won't get my hopes up yet, but hey... so far, so good.
     
    CrazY_Milojko, SpajdrEX and AsiJu like this.
  4. Webhiker

    Webhiker Master Guru

    Messages:
    732
    Likes Received:
    254
    GPU:
    EVGA GTX 1080Ti SC2
    Currently running a 5900X on ROG CH VII Hero with BIOS 4402 (AGESA V2 PI 1.2.0.3 Patch A), but I previously ran a 3900X on the same board with some Trident Z ram @ 3800 Mhz with FCLK 1900. On some of the earlier BIOS revision I had to run with CPU SOC voltage at 1.1v and VDDG 0.950v to get the system stable. In later BIOS editions I didn't need to change anything to get it stable. I simply cannot remember from which BIOS version I was able to run SOC / VDDG on auto on the 3900X. The default SOC voltage on the 3900x was 1.085v. Since I got my 5900X, SOC and VDDG have also been on auto and stil running 3800 MHz with 1900 FCLK.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2021
    AsiJu and Solfaur like this.

  5. LocoDiceGR

    LocoDiceGR Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,363
    Likes Received:
    820
    GPU:
    Gigabyte 3060 Ti
    Latest bios installed?

    Run XMP 3200.
     
  6. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    10,992
    Likes Received:
    4,060
    GPU:
    GTX 1080ti
    It definitely can, asic degradation is not a linear thing.
     
    Solfaur likes this.
  7. Solfaur

    Solfaur Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    7,543
    Likes Received:
    1,000
    GPU:
    GB 3080Ti Gaming OC
    Yeah I can't remember either, but I'm pretty sure the issue for my board's BIOS started to pop around sometime last year, iirc the last version I had before the current F33 being like F21 or something, and that one ran perfectly fine with everything on auto with XMP. From what I've read it's very motherboard specific issue, with a guy having 2x X570 Aorus Masters for example (both same revision too) and one had the reboots, the other didn't. So yeah, who knows what might be the cause.

    I fixed it with the manual VDDP and VDDG values, it works now with XMP (3600 cl18) again. Left the PC in desktop overnight and it didn't crash, so I'm pretty sure I'm "out of the woods" for the time being.
     
    CrazY_Milojko and fantaskarsef like this.
  8. Clouseau

    Clouseau Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,732
    Likes Received:
    420
    GPU:
    ZOTAC AMP RTX 3070
    Glad you found the issue. This is one of the reasons I never leave voltage settings on auto. When I was running my 3800X final settings never put those above 875. Best performance for me came when they were set to 850. Could not get any decent ram oc stable if they were above 875.

    Current board: MSI B550 Unify - overvolts almost everything by .01V. Have to manually set voltages .01V lower than where I want them and all is ok. RAM was tricky. DRAM VTT needed to be set manually to (BIOS DRAM voltage setting+.01V)/2. Has been consistent trough all the bios updates so far.
     
    AsiJu and Solfaur like this.
  9. metagamer

    metagamer Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,135
    Likes Received:
    854
    GPU:
    Palit GameRock 2080
    I built a new rig this week and had similar issues on days 1 and 2. PC would work just fine under load for hours but would sometimes just crash same as in Solfaur's case. Just sat in Windows. I played Destiny 2 for something like 4 hours solid, not an issue, decided to take a break, quit the game and then it just rebooted itself a minute later while in Windows, doing literally nothing.

    I think what fixed it for me was to install the latest AMD chipset drivers directly from AMD as they were newer version than those on the Gigabyte website. Possibly something to do with power management. I've now had 2 full days of stable idle behaviour.

    Also what used to happen was on cold boots, it would load to windows and as soon as I logged in, it would just do the same thing, restart. But I've had maybe 10 cold boots since the latest AMD chipset install and it's been solid. Still not 100% convinced but so far so good. Watch it to go to pot now.
     
    Solfaur likes this.
  10. Solfaur

    Solfaur Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    7,543
    Likes Received:
    1,000
    GPU:
    GB 3080Ti Gaming OC
    Yeah you had exactly the same thing. I just now realize that while I did update the latest chipset drivers, it was from Gigabyte's site on the X570 Aorus Master Support tab... duh, will take it from AMD next time. I'll leave it like this for now though. :rolleyes:
     

  11. metagamer

    metagamer Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,135
    Likes Received:
    854
    GPU:
    Palit GameRock 2080
    For me, it worked, so far at least. I won't be 100% happy with it until I get a couple of weeks of no restarts while in idle though. I'm anal like that.

    If you look at the AMD chipset driver changelog, it mentions power management. Perhaps the CPU was dipping bellow it's stable voltage at times causing a reboot. I'm not sure.
     
  12. Mozgus

    Mozgus Active Member

    Messages:
    99
    Likes Received:
    8
    GPU:
    Radeon 7950 3GB
    Found myself with this exact issue OP describes. Been driving me nuts. I too had no issue while I had a 3600 ryzen paired with a 1070ti nvidia. Then I jumped to a 5800x ryzen and once in a while I'd have a random failure to wake, and it would do a quick reboot out of nowhere. Event Viewer shows power failure. Then I bought a 3070ti card and I'm getting those wake failures more often, as well as now getting the same random, instant power reboot while sitting idle or casually reading a web page. Never while gaming. I've noticed sometimes the mouse curser and page scrolling begins slowing to a few frames per second right before it reboots.

    Turning off my ram xmp seems to make the issue less frequent but not fixed. Maybe the same with turning off resizable bar and the associated 4G PCIE function.
     
  13. metagamer

    metagamer Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,135
    Likes Received:
    854
    GPU:
    Palit GameRock 2080
    @Solfaur Sorry about the tag some 20 days later, but I can confirm that since I've updated my chipset drivers directly from AMD, rather than Gigabyte, I've had zero restarts while in idle. It's been some 3 weeks and I've not had it happen once. So it seems that at least in my case, it was the chipset drivers.
     
    Solfaur likes this.
  14. Solfaur

    Solfaur Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    7,543
    Likes Received:
    1,000
    GPU:
    GB 3080Ti Gaming OC
    I too can confirm that the vddp/vddg manual settings have completely fixed it for me. Not a single reboot ever since, and that's with XMP and BAR enabled.

    @Mozgus try to do the vddp/vddg fix and have the latest bios+chipset driver like @metagamer suggested. One of them should do the trick.

    This is the thing with AMD Ryzen platform, was talking with a friend the other day, while it is awesome performance there's still a lot of instability that can happen out of the blue with one odd update or another. There are tons of threads of various issues like these reboots with a myriad of fixes/workarrounds etc., it's just the way it is I guess. PCMR! :p
     
  15. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    10,992
    Likes Received:
    4,060
    GPU:
    GTX 1080ti
    having to manually set the voltages is just working around a dying cpu's issues, the cpu should operate at auto without requiring any user tampering.
     

  16. Solfaur

    Solfaur Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    7,543
    Likes Received:
    1,000
    GPU:
    GB 3080Ti Gaming OC
    Mate, if I rollback to an older bios the reboots don't happen.
     
  17. Mozgus

    Mozgus Active Member

    Messages:
    99
    Likes Received:
    8
    GPU:
    Radeon 7950 3GB
    I've not had an issue since updating all drivers for chipset and cpu from amd.com. MSI's links for my motherboard were many months out of date. But I will keep that in mind. What VDDP/VDDG settings do I use for a 5800x Ryzen? Same as you listed?

    ****Edit****
    Wow, 5 minutes later it rebooted on me and now it's rebooting seconds after getting into windows, 3 times in a row. Obviously drivers didn't help. Ok trying the voltage settings now....


    Aaaaaand that didn't help at all.

    How old? What AGESA version?
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
  18. Solfaur

    Solfaur Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    7,543
    Likes Received:
    1,000
    GPU:
    GB 3080Ti Gaming OC
    What is your mobo? Anything since F22 and earlier worked fine, so it's since the 1.0.8.1 or 1.2.0.2 that the XMP problem popped up for me. Just checked and there's a new BIOS with 1.2.0.3 B out, maybe that will fix it?
     
  19. Mozgus

    Mozgus Active Member

    Messages:
    99
    Likes Received:
    8
    GPU:
    Radeon 7950 3GB
    1.2.0.3B is where I started here with the issue. 1.2.0.2 also had it just as bad. I'm back on 1.2.0.3b now, with Resizable BAR off and XMP off just trying to use my damn PC at all. In fact I couldnt get windows to boot at all until I flipped the PSU switch off and left it off for a few minutes before trying again with these BIOS settings.

    Oh and I have an MSI X570 A-PRO
     
    Solfaur likes this.
  20. Pictus

    Pictus Member Guru

    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    36
    GPU:
    RX 5600 XT
    Solfaur likes this.

Share This Page