Ram

Discussion in 'General Hardware' started by Eastcoasthandle, Jan 26, 2021.

  1. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    It appears that the most popular kits out there are:
    CL14-3200Mhz
    CL16-3600Mhz
    CL17/CL18-4000Mhz

    With Bdie we are talking about 14-14-14, 16-16-16 and 17-18-18/18-18-18. It's more common to have b-die with those tigher timing then with micron or hynix or adata. Which uses looser timings of 14-16-16, 16-19-19 and 18-20-20, for example.

    From what I've researched though that higher frequency memory with tighter timing can improve frame rates. So much so it would look like you upgraded gpu (depending on the game). It would appear that anyone upgrading from cl16-2133, c15-3000, cl16-3200 memory kits would notice a pretty noticeable improvement in frame rates with the aforementioned kits above. Which can make you think twice of upgrading gpu. The point of those examples is to show high latency lower frequency kits can actually hinder performance (as I found out).

    Now I understand that not all memory IC's are the same. Micron and Hynix or Adata don't typically offer 16-16-16, as found from Samsung's B-die for example. Typically you will see something like 16-19-19. Yet in those 2 examples at the same frequency IE: 3600Mhz results can still be within the ball park of each other. At 16-16-16 you might see better frame rates during explosions and other effects going on vs 16-19-19. Caveat is what CPU you are using.

    However, if the timing is at CL14, you would see a difference. All of this still depends on those games most sensitive to memory. It's not automatic in "all games". Sometimes, you might not see any changes. Other times the changes are so massive you would have thought that the GPU was OC. It depends on the game.

    Example:






    But there is a flip side that I haven't talked about. What's the breaking point? Where the memory timing is so loose that it negates the benefit of the higher frequency? Well, that depends on the IC (Samsung Bdie, Hynx, Micron E-Die, Adata) used and in what configuration. However, it's very possible that 3200Mhz CL14 can perform similularly to 3600Mhz CL18


    Look at Warzone starting at 4:02, for example.

    In any case, your input is encourage as this is a learning process for me as well. One more thing, it appears that those kits that offers extremely low timings like 3600Mhz at CL14 or 4000Mhz at CL16 that require 1.45v or 1.50v can be hampered do to heat. As there appears to you need to be within a certain thermal range or else the IC's can throttle down do to heat. If, that's true I would always stick with 1.35V for DDR4.

    Is there a memory subsection on this forum?
     
  2. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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  3. Freeman

    Freeman Member Guru

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    RAM aint something you should really worry about.
    Usually customer buys the sticks with best Mhz or timings and then plays all games and forgets about it.


    Yes, I did look at it, didnt see anything significant. Everythings at around 140 to 150fps.
    Lara Croft is one game I noticed from 100fps to 130fps at ultra in one area so maybe it does translate too smoothness and fps drops in some areas.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
  4. insp1re2600

    insp1re2600 Ancient Guru

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    ram is definitely something to worry about regarding performance...
     
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  5. Freeman

    Freeman Member Guru

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    I just dont see it. I dont see so many things Im blind as a bat.
    Like 140fps to 150fps in some areas is significant? It starts to be about rhetorics.
     
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  6. insp1re2600

    insp1re2600 Ancient Guru

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    id say 10fps is quite significant yeah, also timings make a great difference. iv experienced this with my own 3600 18-22-22-42 to 3800 16-19-19-36, made a huge diff to watchdogs legion for me.
     
  7. Raserian

    Raserian Member Guru

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    That depends on significance of values, there is a huge difference of 10 FPS between 20 and 30 FPS and no difference between 140 and 150 FPS. Once you are beyond viewing range, FPS count is not gonna be visible. I guess most humans cannot see over 100 FPS and playing at about 50 FPS is smooth enough to enjoy your game. So tweaking your RAM to get it to 150 is not gonna do anything.
     
  8. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    All you can do is laugh. Some of these responses are asinining. :p

    1. You would expect this kind of performance improvement when overclocking your gpu/cpu. So I take it they never tried. As its not "worth it".

    2. They think everyone is still using 60hz monitors. Where trying to do better then their monitor's refresh rate at 144hz/240hz is overlooked by them. For example.

    3. And they completely lack the rudimentary understanding that the improvement in minimal fps and 1% lows it brings. Which improves immersion. And reduces latency in competitive scene like warzone. Something you tried to explain in your watch dogs example.

    But wait who expected to see 10 or better fps improvent in games using ram? Just by getting 1 step higher frequency ram at tighter timing. :eek:
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
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  9. Freeman

    Freeman Member Guru

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    Not ''' in games''', in some areas maybe.
    Thats really funny. I had one LG 144hz, colours were kinda dissapointing, greyish and I returned. I had one iiyama 144hz and it started to make noises so I returned it.
    Believe me, dude, I can afford and get a rig and monitor I want, I choose to go with better colours not 144hz.
    Theres simply never in the last 10 years has been the argument to spend time on RAM. Clearly, mostly it makes no difference.

    If that 7% in some games / some areas over 100fps is your little forum, mature argument victory, go ahead, enjoy. :D
     
  10. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    That wrong lol. Its actually in the game. And the fps fluctuate no differently using better ram then without. To further add, in most games, some areas of a map are more demanding then others. Therefore you will see fluctuations in real time. However, the performance gains are still apparent. So that discombobulated your strawman.

    Ah, so you cannot refute the importance better ram brings to monitors with refresh rates greater than 60hz. So you strawman some bad experience you had with "a monitor". Neat! In a nut shell all you are saying is that you don't see the need for the performance improvement. However, you have been rebuked for trying to force your view as fact.

    So having exposed your responses as the fraud that it is. It truly becomes childish to continue in this circular argument. As this is a forum where we can and will share our experiences. Just as I and @insp1re2600 have done.
    Lol
    :cool:
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
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  11. Freeman

    Freeman Member Guru

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  12. Agent-A01

    Agent-A01 Ancient Guru

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    Depends on the game.

    I've seen significant gains from 3200 CL13 > to 4133 @ CL15 with tuned tertiary and secondary timings.

    Black ops 3 is an older game i test on one particular zombies map. In one spot my fps goes from 105~ to 130 with the faster ram.
     
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  13. insp1re2600

    insp1re2600 Ancient Guru

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  14. Freeman

    Freeman Member Guru

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    HyperX FURY 8GBx2 HX432C16FB3/8

    But I dont have a 2080ti so with more mainstream card it doesnt make a difference. Those 5% vanish without high end GPU.

    (reason why tests are never done on mainstream cards)
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
  15. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    Some game benefit some do not, some parts of game benefit some do not. Most people just buy ram and forget about, unless they really into OC and tweaking, which is minority to compared most.

    If the better ram with better speed,timing or the tweaking is worth it to person is entirely subjective. but for majority of people it is not, this is tech enthusiast form where most people are the minority which people here and many other such forums tend to forget.

    I am not one those people that will OC and go tweaking the last bit performance. it not worth my time or effort. is worth it to another? Depends on person and which category they fall in.

    For same reason some people will pay 300$ more for 5% performance difference or just OC them selves and save the money it all comes down to how worth it is to individual , but never assume everyone on enthusiast form hold same values that everything need to be tweak/oc, I been coming here for 20+ years for tech info and reviews and people here with knowledge I trust, OC performance i could careless or Ram Timing it working it meet my requirements and exceeds it, so it none issue
     
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  16. Raserian

    Raserian Member Guru

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    Rendering performance is dependent on system RAM speed when you are using processor IGP, which does not have faster separate Video RAM available and stores video data alongside your files in main system RAM, most IGPs however are not fast enough to take advance of some really fast RAM so it is mostly an issue on AMD APUs featuring Radeon HD IGP. If you use external video card with it's own video RAM, you no longer use your system RAM to process video data, you only use it store files of your running game in it, which are mostly loaded first time your game is run or during loading screen. Since system RAM is utilized much less in the second scenario, it is unlikely that changing its timing characteristics is going to improve your performance significantly. That's why you have video cards which feature much more video RAM (usually 10 GB or more RAM) than is your main system RAM which even on high end computers is usually just about 8 - 16 GB. If your idea is to just squeeze the max performance out of your hardware it's fine, and you should continue to do that, what is not ok is you claiming it improves experience (enhancing game visuals by increasing FPS and decreasing latency) when its effect on your running game is not going to be noticeable. All these FPS counters in games should be removed if your game is running above playable (50-60 FPS) framerate as they are just number provoking for a lot of people.
     
  17. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    I am not saying go buy low speed bdie and tune it up to 3600mgz cl14. Far from it. There are kits out there now that are already tuned for that. The trick is, if you are on zen 3, is to buy some low latency 3800/4000mhz kits that can also do low latency at 3600mhz. Use the xmp profile and just down clock it to 3600mhz cl14.
    By using hwinfo to see the steps that each frequency is timed to.
     
  18. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    Again not everyone will think that is worth there time or energy, most people just buy ram set it to it XMP profiles and leave it be

    Tweakers and OCer that think this is worth it is minority. There is diffrence between all this timing and speed and tweaks, the question is it worth it the individual
     
  19. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    Again, what i posted isn't tweaking nor overclocking. Its common knowledge to enable the profile in the bios in order to get speeds beyond jedec. If you understand xmp profiles then you can understand that an app called hwinfo can provide you with the frequencies along with timings for each frequency that steps down from its advertised speed. Which can yield tighter timing.

    That post wasn't intended for "just you". And if you are not interested or believe others are not will not hinder me in providing the information.
     
  20. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    you assuming it common knowledge which problem one and assume everyone thinks it worth there time and energy which problem two , Not everyone does, which was my "POINT"

    Again not everyone that lurks on enthusiasts forum actual is and or does all the thing majority user at such forums do. this is what people forget and you are are forget on such forums, but what ever
     
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