Radeon Software Crimson ReLive Edition 17.9.3 Beta/WHQL Download & Discussion

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon Drivers Section' started by mtrai, Sep 27, 2017.

  1. wuest3nfuchs

    wuest3nfuchs Member

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    Hi all !

    Today i've tested the whql edition of 17.9.3 and i've had my first hard lock after years on my machine which was caused by this driver AFTER closing Star Wars Battlefront 2 BETA...i didn't had that on the ALPHA so i don't get the point !
    Closed the game and i had a driver crash and then lockup...should i reinstall the driver maybe ?
     
  2. Chastity

    Chastity Ancient Guru

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    Well, first, let's get our facts straight. The cards locking at UVD speeds has been around since 2010, and a simple Google search will show you this. For example:

    https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/why-do-ati-drivers-like-to-get-stuck-at-uvd-clocks.49529/ < April 2010

    This would put the issue to be far older that any 16.xx.xx builds. In fact, there are a few people here who have complained that it hasn't been fixed in over 2-3 years. Ergo, these statements:

    are categorically disproved.

    Also, there are models of cards, like say a 280, that have had this issue since the beginning, and other 280 cards have no issue at all. If it was a driver issue, then ALL cards would exhibit the problem. Please remember, that firmware is more than just a series of tables, but also microcode for execution. This microcode can have errors, and would only be fixed via a new firmware. When I worked at Asus corporate, I was a 3rd Tier tech support specialist, aka the highest tier in the company. I handled cases that failed going through normal channels, or went to the BBB or state attorney's office for complaints, and I handled Asus' whole product line. So I've had my share of isolating problems with hardware, and subsequently firmware and software issues, and have worked with AMD to rectify these problems before, both on desktops cards and laptops. Based on my experience, and the how long this issue has been around, and the procedure to get changes made, it quite often only gets rectified on a few model of cards, and then the corrected microcode gets used moving forward. However, sometimes when building firmware, the tech in question may pull older code out of habit, and the issue returns.

    If it was strictly a driver issue, I think this would have been rectified a LONG time ago, especially when the problem is reported from the OEM channels. (Corporate support contracts require AMD to rectify bugs in their products) So from an insider's perspective, I feel this issue is based on some buggy microcode, or table code, rather than strictly driver code. A way you can test this yourself is to find a model matching yours made from another company that doesn't have the problem and see if the firmware fixes it. I've nabbed MSI firmwares a few times to test this, and then have AMD build us new firmwares using whatever updated code was in theirs on our products. (AMD retains ownership of all firmware code)
     
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  3. TheDukeSD

    TheDukeSD Member Guru

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    1) The driver is capable to ignore parts of the content of a broken powerplay table. I have such a vbios on my HD4350, the driver just uses the clocks from the boot section for everything, because everything else is a mess (there are no clocks for uvd or normal function because that part is totaly missing; it has no issue to just use the boot clocks for everything and if u don't actually look in the powerplay table to see the mess there u can happy assume that it just set to use 600/400 for everything because it actually report this values for ati/amd powerplay state1,state2, state3, state 4 in every single tool i used to see them without actually dumping the vbios (because well the driver set them like that from only a working boot)). And it's not only my gpu, there is a second bios, that doesn't have same minor version as mine, on techpowerup that comes with the same broken powerplay table (funny it's broken in exactly same way...) (Have no fear despite the fact that the powerplay table is a disaster the vbios checksum is correct, so the problem was not due to a bad flash during manufacturing process, but due to a mess when the vbios was compiled.).

    2) The driver doesn't have to stay in the microcode in the bios if that microcode is know to be bugged. It can happy load another microcode. Yes you start to ship the drivers with some microcodes to fix some issues, the driver is huge anyway, adding some microcodes in it won't make it bigger than other crap that comes with the driver...
    Don't say it's not possible. It was possible back in the geforce 2 era to basicaly load another vbios after boot without actually flashing the gpu and load the os on top of that vbios...
    Heck you can load cpu microcode updates in linux, you don't need that microcode in the bios... So don't tell me it's not possible...
    (And the funny part is that you don't need to test that microcode against all the vbioses you made for that particular gpu, you only need to test it to work with the drivers you provide for that particular gpu ;) ).
    (Stuff about updating cpu microcode: https://arstechnica.com/information...have-a-crash-bug-with-hyperthreading-enabled/ "Microcode updates can be sourced in two ways. The system firmware can include new microcode that gets installed each time the system boots, and operating systems can also update processor microcode through use of special (proprietary) drivers." If you can do it with a cpu, you can do it with a gpu also.)

    The fact that AMD likes to do it the hard way:
    - users complaining about the problem
    - amd saying, you need bios update, we don't provide it to you, ask the manufacturer
    - manufacturer may or may not be willing to bother with the problem
    - user having to flash the bios that well require some particular conditions to do it (like a psu, like not using some particular amd drivers cause those drivers just hang the flash in windows, or well flash it with a dos dongle)
    is not exactly nice. At the moment when they admit they send broken bioses they should recall and fix for free every single gpu affected by the problem (even outside warranty, because well the gpu was broken for the entire time), and by they I don't talk about manufactures but I talk about AMD because well it looks like AMD is responsible for the bugged bioses...

    A "matching" model doesn't actualy guarantee that I will actually have an output after flash. I did experiments with the hd 4350 and well it didn't turned up that well, in the bioses from the other manufacturers the dvi and vga were swapped and well only the vga was working and it was looking like i use a dvi to vga adapter from gpu point of view (no output on dvi, was reported as not having a cable connected no matter what).
    The stuff was linked in another order in the vbios compared to my vbios (that's the main reason I had to manualy fix the vbios of the hd 4350 because there was no viable donor: either vga and dvi were swapped or the mem was not matching). (No way to figure out, either the tables were identical or the differences were huge; I was expecting a table with only some minor diferences like 2,3,4,6,8 differences or something like that but there was none).
    With only dvi, hdmi and dp it's way easier to end up without display if the donor is not a proper donor.
    If the stuff is like this in my vbios:
    dvi | hdmi | dp
    dvi | hdmi | dp
    and like this in the donor
    dvi | hdmi | dp (mine)
    hdmi | dp | dvi (donor)
    hdmi | dp | dvi
    I will have no output but the pc will happy boot and load windows/linux, ofc I will just see black on my display... (yes the connectors can be in the exact same physical orders but linked in another order in the vbios...) (my dvi will look like hdmi, hdmi like dp and dp like dvi and it will report no cable on all of them..., while in the donor the connectors match...).

    Won't be a surprise if AMD lie the manufacturers also.
    They had no shame to sell Ryzen cpus that had issue in Linux in particular situations: https://www.extremetech.com/computing/254750-amd-replaces-ryzen-cpus-users-affected-rare-linux-bug
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
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  4. mtrai

    mtrai Maha Guru

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    Really...people stay on topic...the GCN UVD has been an on and off issue since 2010. This is a discussion about driver 17.9.3. If you want to discuss the UVD issue...then open a new thread on or use one of the many ones. It is what it is. Since the issue is this old.. DO NOT EXPECT ANY FIXES. But once again if you feel the need to point it out with each driver then open your own threads as it is no longer a driver issue.
     
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  5. TheDukeSD

    TheDukeSD Member Guru

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    Please remind me what AMD GCN gpu has been released in 2010.

    The fact that people fail to understand what a driver can do is not exactly my problem. And the gpu is not even a vital pc component to begin with (easy to notice that when u look at dmesg in Linux, the gpu is initialized really really late). The gpu is just one of the many output devices and that's it, not even needed to boot the pc (totaly ignore the fact that some mb manufacturer set the bios to halt if no gpu is found, without even giving an option to change that; i'm sure a server really needs a gpu, NOT).

    I won't stop you to believe AMD lies. You are free to feed them with your money. The more money you will give them the less problems you will see fixed ;).

    They refuse to fix this problem because they believe people will buy new gpu and that some of those new gpu will be from them (AMD) and that way they will get some sort of money.
    Lately in the market I've see a lot of underdogs acting like they are dominating the market, something that is totaly wrong. Such attitude won't really help.

    And yes this is a driver problem with an easy fix if they decide to open source the windows driver ;). Even if someone reverse engineer their driver and patches it, well it will have legal problems going public with the fix because that fix will for sure break the copyright...

    I kinda already understood that. And well to such attitude from AMD there is only one possible answer: NO LONGER BUY PRODUCTS MADE OR THAT HAVE PARTS MADE BY AMD.
    I've been with AMD for the last 10 years, it's probably time to be with intel and nvidia for the next 10 years (if I'll live that long...).
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
  6. prazola

    prazola Member Guru

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    I agree with you on the driver side of the problem, but not with your conclusion. Nvidia is even worse at both opensource and ignoring driver problems, like official driver bsod-ing a ton of notebooks that never got fixed forcing you to use the oldest driver you can find. I've been forced to sell my gtx460 sli because linux driver were broken and system freezed 2 minutes after login.
    I wuould even pay to get this problem fixed, because this hardware is so good and doesn't deserve to be trashed. Isn't there a way to speak with a real AMD windows developer instead of a PR?
     
  7. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    Hello everyone!

    Can anyone look to see if 17.9.3 offers a profile for Battlefront 2 beta?
     
  8. olymind1

    olymind1 Member

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    I don't see anything at the RADEON SETTINGS under the Gaming tab. But maybe that doesn't mean that it doesn't have support.

    Don't know why but almost all the time i have to add games manually to the RADEON SETTINGS becauce it can't detect installed games.
     
  9. AlleyViper

    AlleyViper Master Guru

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    Since a few versions after a fresh driver install, it doesn't populate it with all the games you have installed. I guess it just means that it'll still use default values for those profiles. It probably has to do with better Steam integration as it can even check game requirements via all profiles>check compatibility, and pressing add>scan only seems to add Steam games on lib folders. Before, even GOG games would show automatically, but now scan doesn't even detect them.

    PS: I confirm GCN 1.0 UVD bug on a 7870, but that's no news.

    @d0X Haven't had enough time to test them on my RX480, but doesn't it seem like vdrop is slightly less than in the last bunch of drivers? Probably one step higher in avg.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
  10. d0X

    d0X Member Guru

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    Still two to three steps for me. But DXVA still spikes the voltage to the max 1.15V. That's a nasty bug.
     

  11. Romulus_ut3

    Romulus_ut3 Master Guru

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    Flashing a custom BIOS doesn't get rid of the UVD bug. All flashing a modified BIOS does is set custom frequencies for UVD state that probably is the same as your demanding 3D state, which renders the cards far more inefficient in terms power consumption than they already are.

    People who assume that GPU firmware is to blame for the UVD bug couldn't be further from the truth.
     
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  12. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    Thanks for checking.

    AMD's Crimson Profiles stopped working sometime around Fall/Spring 2017. With no rhythm or reason. At one time game profiles would simply show up without having to do anything. Next driver update you have to tell it to "scan" for those games. Then after another driver update "Scan" simply stopped working. No release notes about it. Not eta on a fix. No acknowledgement that it's even broken.

    What I do know is that if you add a game profile to Crimson I got degraded performance in that game. So I stop using Profiles all together.
     
  13. AlleyViper

    AlleyViper Master Guru

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    Had time to check it better now. Under Heaven 4 I have drops from 1.043mV (stock according to WattTool) to 1.025mV or even 1.018mV. That's 3-4 steps under heavy 3D usage, or 1.036mV to 1.031mV under light 3D (1-2 steps).
     
  14. LocoDiceGR

    LocoDiceGR Ancient Guru

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    17.10.1 tomorrow with shadow of war / evil within 2 profiles?

    Hmmmmmmm! :rolleyes:
     
  15. RzrTrek

    RzrTrek Ancient Guru

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    It would be kind of cool if AMD could time that with RS3 RTM.
     

  16. Rambo

    Rambo Master Guru

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    What with OpenGL 4.6? Do you know something about that? I don't know if I need that but I want to have higher version.
     
  17. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    Evil Within 2 is in the profile file, no Crossfire settings though and just one of those HighPerfGPU affinity flags.

    <application Title="The Evil Within 2" File="TEW2.exe">
    <use Area="PXDynamic">HighPerfGPUAffinity</use>
    </application>

    Shadow of War has a Crossfire profile though. :)

    <profile Area="CFX" Usage="Middle Earth Shadow of WarProfile" Notes="Middle Earth Shadow of War">
    <value Property="CfxBlob">0x22,0x00,0x00,0x01,0x00,0x00,0xFF,0xFF,0x38,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x17,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x01,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x22,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x01,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x02,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x06,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x01,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x13,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x04,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x4C,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x5A,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x5B,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x01,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x01,0x00,0xFF,0xFF,0xB0,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x03,0x00,0x00,0x00,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0x18,0x00,0x00,0x00,0xD4,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x01,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0x01,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x28,0x08,0x00,0x00,0x01,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x01,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x01,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x08,0x00,0x00,0x00,0xEC,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x03,0x00,0x00,0x00,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0x00,0x01,0x00,0x40,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0x28,0x00,0x00,0x00,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0x08,0x00,0x00,0x00,0xF4,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x05,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x01,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x0A,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x01,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x06,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x01,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x03,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x01,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x01,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x21,0x00,0x00,0x01,0x02,0x00,0xFF,0xFF,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x03,0x00,0xFF,0xFF,0x04,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,</value>
    <value Property="CrossfireProf">True</value>
    </profile>

    Battlefront 2 is covered too.

    <profile Area="CFX" Usage="Star Wars Battlefront 2Profile" Notes="Star Wars Battlefront 2">
    <value 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    <value Property="CrossfireProf">True</value>
    </profile>



    These were mostly added in the 17.40.xx branch driver from the Win10 insider fast-ring users but with the driver being dated September 27th there's a good chance of the profiles at least being merged into whatever the next regular driver release will have in 17.10.1 :)


    EDIT:
    https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/wddm-2-3-driver-23-20-768-12-9-27-2017-12-00-00-am.417180/page-2

    That driver, I'd think over whether to use it or not though and not just install it immediately, going by how Nvidia's 387.xx driver was this AMD one is probably also a bit rough though I guess it's easy enough to switch back should things get too broken to use it further.


    Not too sure which files you'd have to copy over to the game folder to get the full benefits either, dll's for D3D probably but not sure if that's enough for everything.



    EDIT:
    But to be fair having a Crossfire profile doesn't tell much, you can see the huge amount of different little properties or flags that makes up said profile for more complex games but in the end it comes down to how the game performs and you can't really get anything like that from just seeing that there's a profile in the driver.

    Scaling in different scenarios, micro stutter and graphical glitches are some potential issues and for Battlefront the game also supports DX12 which is up to the developers to implement mGPU support so the above profiles should all be DX11 only, seeing how complex some of these are I guess it's not too surprising the initial batch of DX12 games had multi-GPU support for up to some months after release.


    If the game isn't optimized well to begin with either whether it's AMD and drivers or the game developer and the game engine hampering things that's also going to affect things, 2x GPU's might be able to brute force things a bit though but then it's back to variances in scaling and GPU utilization and the ever annoying micro-stuttering problems.

    Latency or frame time variance is also a issue, CPU load can impact things too I believe but I have very little experience with multi-GPU setups myself so it's mostly going by what I've read. :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2017
    Romulus_ut3 and LocoDiceGR like this.
  18. user1

    user1 Maha Guru

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    GPU:
    hd 6870
    The earliest version of powertune (what gcn cards use) was present on the 6900 series vliw4 cards, and UVD clock states are present on even the old version of powerplay.




    On the topic of 17.9.3, haven't experienced any crashes/bugs, seems to have reduced overhead. will do an analysis at somepoint.
     
    rafaelluik likes this.
  19. Chastity

    Chastity Ancient Guru

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    GPU:
    Nitro 390/GTX1070M
    Any news on 17.10.1?
     
  20. prazola

    prazola Member Guru

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    171
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    GPU:
    R9390XSOC / R9290DCU2OC

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