Radeon RX 470 Benchmarks

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jun 15, 2016.

  1. Stormyandcold

    Stormyandcold Ancient Guru

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    Brimstone101, my maths works fully for UK prices as the prices I'm using is the confirmed UK price.

    $ price may give different results, but, comparing last-gen products doesn't really tell us anything especially when you see this;

    https://www.overclockers.co.uk/msi-...-pci-express-graphics-card-red-gx-277-ms.html

    See? I can find even cheaper products, but, that doesn't change the RX 480 release price in the UK. So please, give up your quest cause that's not how it works here in UK.
     
  2. Aelders

    Aelders Banned

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    Wait a minute, if we assume 480 is 25% faster than 470, then something is still very wrong with regards to previous amd claims of 1440p60 hitman at max settings.
     
  3. slavke

    slavke Active Member

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    so 2 of these would stack up around 1070 for less money? I never thought id say this but i might go dual GPU this year.
     
  4. Dch48

    Dch48 Ancient Guru

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    Wow that RX470 looks like a nice inexpensive upgrade to my 270X. It looks better than the 380X. I hope this turns out to be accurate.
     

  5. BrimStone101

    BrimStone101 Member

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    how i see it for a 200 dollar card ile be paying around 170 to 180 pounds thats including VAT and taxes.
    Comparing the prices of the 1070 and 1080 takes me to this conclusion
     
  6. Vipu2

    Vipu2 Master Guru

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    Cant wait to see how it OCs, in detail tests, temps, crossfire etc.
    I really hope amd will do well with all that but I have my doubts.
     
  7. BrimStone101

    BrimStone101 Member

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    I have noticed in recent times that the prices of graphics cards have been increasing over inflation and this bombshell from amd will help put things right.
    Because right now the price of a top card is ludicrous.
     
  8. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    8800GTX launched ~10 years ago for $600. 1080 is $600.

    Seems fine.
     
  9. Aelders

    Aelders Banned

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    The argument is that GT80 was the top-end GPU, GP104 is not. G80 was 480mm if I'm not mistaken, GP104 is 330mm. Just to be clear, I don't agree with this argument, I'm just sayin', this is why people are upset.
     
  10. alanm

    alanm Ancient Guru

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    The 8800gtx ultra was the top card. That I believe was $800+.
     

  11. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    I guess my issue with that is that if you take it all the way, the cost of developing a GPU has significantly increased. You need Cadence EDA systems for simulation/design, atomic-force microscopy for analyzing failures, etc. The cost of developing these things has increased significantly. Nvidia's R&D budget in 2006 was ~150m, it's now ~350m. Nvidia stated it cost them $600M to build G80, they stated it cost them ~$2B to build GP100.

    I do wish it was a little cheaper, obviously. I would have liked to see the 1080 at $550 and I do think the FE card is stupid. But I also think that the notion of cards being "super expensive" now is a little ridiculous. Inflation alone that 8800GTX would have cost $715 today.
     
  12. slavke

    slavke Active Member

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    Currently Im seeing GTX 1070 going for the price of what 980 was and not even close to 970 ball park. Even though prices will most likely drop, i dont see them dropping 200 CAD any time soon. 1080 is about 200CAD + of what 980ti used to go for.
     
  13. Aelders

    Aelders Banned

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    I said it from the start, GM204 was 5200M transistors, GP104 is 7200M

    TSMC documentation claimed an 8% increase in cost per transistor, assuming a certain density level. GP104 is only 67% more dense than GM204, meaning NV chose to produce a lower density design for high clocking.

    So let's assume that 8% increase in per transistor cost is actually around 13% accounting for lower density (which I think is conservative!)

    Then relative to GM204, GP104 costs (1.13x (7200/5200)) = 156% the cost. Ouch.

    Wasn't it 8Bn they spent on R&D for Pascal ?
     
  14. Mineria

    Mineria Ancient Guru

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    "At least 60fps" is a pretty wide statement since it is depends on resolution and settings used for each game. :)

    Cheap does not always mean trash, I have one GTX750Ti in a small system since the more expensive cards will kill that systems power supply, you need to look at it from other perspectives as well.
    Besides that, I owned a few cards with a higher price tag that had issues mainly with cooling (fixed those by reseating and BIOS modding though).
    Same goes for guitars (electrical), I have a cheap Epiphone which is as good as many guitars that cost 10x as much, do I need to remind you that their main company "Gibson" has made guitars at a high price with issues that never should exist, not to mention taking the cheap production way with certain models.
    Just look at Squire, now and then they too manage to spit out some limited models that are comparable to Fender branded counterparts, and that with a ridiculous low price.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2016
  15. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    The only quote I can find is "several billion" he doesn't actually state a number. I guess it depends on what you define as "R&D for Pascal". Considering a large portion of Pascal is essentially made up of Fermi/Kepler/Maxwell you could technically include some of those numbers.

    If you figure that like 50% of the R&D of the company goes towards GPU architecture that's 160m per quarter over 12 quarters (assuming it takes 3 years from start) that's ~$2B. 50% is probably on the low side though.

    I guess my point is that the cost of building these things has gone up pretty significantly in the last decade and yet the price of the GPU's hasn't really gone up much at all. It fluctuates, obviously, for example slavke is saying that a 1070 isn't as cheap as a 970 was -- but the 970 was actually much cheaper at launch than the 770 (970 was $330 - 770 was $400), and yet people were still complaining about the increasing costs of GPU's during the 9 series as well. In the case of the RX480 the cost effectiveness, especially at 1080p resolutions (where the majority of gamers are at) is super low. So if anything I think you could argue that it's actually gone down.

    I should also state I'm not living in Europe where they charge ~20% tax rates or whatever + I'm sure the added cost of distributing the cards through various countries and whatnot.

    Anyway, I'm hoping the RX pricing puts pressure on Nvidia to lower it's prices but I think that people will pay a premium for performance and Nvidia has always charged a premium for it's cards anyway.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2016

  16. Kaarme

    Kaarme Ancient Guru

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    It's a value added tax, after all. If no step on the way to the customer adds anything to the value, then the state only gets the tax once. However, that's not really how a business can run because no added value means no profit either. If you add to the price to ensure your own livelihood, then you add to the value and the state wants its cut.

    Let's say for example's sake that the VAT is 20% (I'm sure in a decent place like the UK it's actually much lower, unlike in an indecent place like my home country where it's even higher).

    1) Warehouse sells a video card to Stormyandcold's shop for £200 (vat=£40). The warehouse pays this £40 to the First Lord of the Treasury Cameron (goddam what a title).

    2) Stormyandcold sells the card for £240 to a random Joe from the streets. VAT is £48. Stormyandcold pays Cameron then 48-40 pounds = £8, because Cameron already got 40 pounds from the warehouse. In other words, during this example the added value was 40 pounds (240-200), and 20% of £40 is that £8.

    So, it's not like the full VAT would be paid to the state at every step, which would be crazy, but it doesn't change the fact it can be paid multiple times, but only for the portion of added value.
     
  17. Stormyandcold

    Stormyandcold Ancient Guru

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    That's based on knowledge that there WILL be a GTX 1080 ti though.

    Which would be equivalent to the 8800GTX Ultra as alanm said (which was also awful value for money), which I can say I couldn't afford at the time, but, I could afford the 8800GTX.

    If we remove the GTX 1080ti from the picture, then, GTX1080 msrp is cheaper than 10yrs ago and as of today it IS the top-end GPU.

    Also, die sizes. Well, these things are shrinking in node size regardless. We cannot compare a super-computer that takes a whole building 30yrs ago to one that takes a smaller building today, the difference in processing power is exponential. Compare transistor numbers if anything, that is a fairer comparison for 8800GTX vs GTX1080 for how far we've come.

    BTW, I believe the equivalent of 8800GTX is something like the GT210 which is around £10-30 so price of equivalent performance has come down by around 20X.

    Finally, these new processes, whether 14nm or 16nm will spawn a few generations of products to continue to reap the initial investments made. You will see more value for money in years to come.
     
  18. Hansel Hardcore

    Hansel Hardcore Active Member

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    There is no denying that the 470 and 480 are great cards for people on a budget and using 1080p.

    But as always AMD are mostly using AMD sponsored + optimized games to show off there new gpu's with Hitman and Ashes of the Singularity(yet again, sigh).
    Also using overwatch is not the greatest benchmark either considering a toaster could run it.

    And until we get some more reliable 3Dmark tests once AMD's new gpu's are released(as so far the scores are all over the place from the various reports), it is not the best indication of there power for now either.
    Same as always, wait for the guru3d reviews and benchmarks to get the true facts without the AMD influence and hype.
    It will be interesting to see how these new AMD gpu's perform in non AMD sponsored games which account for most games out there.

    Also some comments here saying we should not compare crossfire 470/480's to high end Nvidia gpu's, well isn't that exactly what AMD was doing there recently in Ashes of the Singularity from AMDs live stream Computex 2016??
    I wonder why AMD didn't use one the most popular gaming engines used at the moment to show off crossfire 480's, the UT4 engine that is being used in dozens of games?(Oh that's right, because you would not see crossfire 480's performing at 1080 levels due to UT4 not supporting multi-gpu's).

    On a side not, even though Ashes of the Singularity has a lot of new DX12 tech behind it, surely i am not the only one that things it looks quite average overall considering the lowish framerates most gpu's get in it?
    Sure it might have heaps of stuff happening at once, but graphically it still doesn't look all that great to me.
     
  19. Aelders

    Aelders Banned

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    I ain't complaining, I think the prices are okay, barring a few exceptions *glares at MSI*

    You can't really compare 8800 Ultra to a Ti though, that was still G80! Titan/Ti use the top-end GPUs, whereas x80/x70 use the second biggest GPUs

    8800 Ultra was particularly bad value because it was just an overclocked 8800GTX
    No it's not just you lol, it's the least pretty 'benchmark game' I've seen in ages
     
  20. Stormyandcold

    Stormyandcold Ancient Guru

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    I would love to tell you otherwise bro, but, I can't. VAT is infact 20% here in UK so your example is pretty much real-life scenario. On-top of this is the import-tax and shipping costs because these cards aren't made in the country and before you know it, these cards don't resemble $ pricing at all.
     

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