Radeon Graphics cards Black Screen bug is haunting AMD

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Feb 14, 2020.

  1. Hypernaut

    Hypernaut Member Guru

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    People investing in NAVI be aware you might have a multitude of problems. It hasn't been fun for the 5700 XT owners. In fact, I will never buy an AMD graphics card again after the shitshow I have endured.
     
  2. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    Nice comparison....but not even close. Nice to know you have such little value for human life though.....

    I'm sure you've heard the phrase "Don't believe everything you read on the internet." I've been reading about these supposed black screen issues since the HD7000 series. I have yet to experience these issues myself. So, based on several years of reading about the issues and lack of personal experience, I have concluded that the issues are not as wide spread as claimed. I've also come to the conclusion that there's a high probability that the issues are user induced.

    Personally, I've had relatively few driver related issues in general since I stopped using 3rd party driver removers.....
     
  3. KissSh0t

    KissSh0t Ancient Guru

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    If it's user induced I sure would love to know what I am doing to cause it other than the obvious which is installing a new video card driver.
     
  4. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    Sure, I apply this every time AMD users claim AMD's drivers are more stable than nvidia's. :rolleyes:

    Could be anything.

    Thanks to Microsoft stuffing task manager with unasked for sensor crap even it can be a cause.
     

  5. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    The only time I've had issues with AMD's drivers are the first few releases after a new GPU architecture.....and after using 3rd party driver removers.

    I've never claimed AMD's drivers to be more stable than NVidia's. I don't generally have issues with drivers from either company.
     
  6. KissSh0t

    KissSh0t Ancient Guru

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    I've only ever had issues with AMD drivers with the last few drivers xD

    Maybe it is some sort of incompatibility with something AMD is doing now in the last few drivers and task manager sensor?
     
  7. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    I haven't had any AMD driver related issues since September. Still planning to go with a 3060 when they launch.....because I can't deal with AMD's new control panel. I'd rather deal with NVidia's archaic control panel, than continue using AMD's new control panel....
     
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  8. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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  9. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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  10. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    Good thing for radeon settings lite.
     

  11. KissSh0t

    KissSh0t Ancient Guru

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    Not a fan of the new design too, it's a bit confusing compared to the last.

    I'm think I might go back to nvidia next time too, but it's mostly due to evga not making amd video cards, I just really like evga.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020
  12. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    I usually stick with MSI regardless....
    Except it doesn't work..... Won't even download. Doesn't even come up in a search on the store anymore. Last I read, it requires drivers from Windows update....
     
  13. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    you need uwppair.inf 26.2020.0.0 or newer to enable the installation of radeon settings lite.
     
  14. X7007

    X7007 Ancient Guru

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    How many people really have an issue because of the card? I mean it just started happening now. I salute AMD, they make the greatest hardware but ofc they need to fix drivers, the issue now is if it's their driver issue or something else. Nvvvvida isn't free of issues also. so let's take a look on both sides.
     
  15. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    no it didn't.
     
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  16. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    Partially at least, Battlefield 5's ongoing stability issues seem to improve from downclocking the GPU's a bit so there might be something to it even if the underlying error causing the stability problem in the first place could be entirely from the newer drivers.
    (Problem going away in 19.11.3 or 19.12.1 whichever driver the user ends up going back to for now.)

    From my testing the black screen error itself can happen regardless though and I've been on lower clock speeds around 1.5 Ghz both stock voltage and under volted using a default, increased and also decreased power target limit without it affecting anything and the problem still happens though there is still a possibility the added tweaks AMD is doing to some games that "must" perform well could be pushing some GPU's into unstable performance but then there's also users on the reference boards hitting the same issues.

    Reference PCB being overbuilt like not much AMD's done before and also the 50th AE somewhat higher binned 5700 XT's so I'm not sure as these should be very stable far as the hardware itself goes.
    (Well short of any GPU hardware issues when these might apply if that's still a factor.)


    5600 seems a bit of a mixed bag however with some cards hitting the target bios flash others might be unstable or not get the added VRAM gains (Multiple manufacturers again and thus different timings and all that even for these?) plus AMD is really hampering further gains in software via driver and locks on just how much power they can draw even hindering the bios defaults.
    (Oh the target is 180w nope the driver won't allow more than 150w that's it.)


    EDIT: And as to voltage and clock speeds and comparisons well it's pretty clear AMD's pushing it when you get a "up to" 5% performance gain but the GPU draws twice as much power and you get a substantial amount more heat and the setting might not even allow the GPU to hit the boost target anyway.

    So down a bit and a 2 - 5% performance drop but you can almost halve the power draw from nearly 200w to nearly 100w or balance it a bit eliminating the performance drop almost entirely while still drawing less power.

    And the temps go from near or over 100 Celsius junction to 70 - 80 junction.
    Benchmarks will show some differences but the GPU's quickly hit a wall for how much power they need to clock higher so the stock settings are pretty close to max.
    (Average / game clocks are kinda nice though close to the so called sweet spot around 1700 - 1800 Mhz and around 1050 - 1100v for the voltage then ramping up chasing 1900 - 2000 Mhz at 1.2v)


    One 6-pin instead of a number of different combinations and varying power target and the driver limits and restrictions also puts the 5600 as a very efficient clock for clock GPU but it's kinda hard to test what it could be doing (Kicking the 5700 out of relevancy other than 2 GB more VRAM? :p ) because again the software locks and limitations from the drivers prevents it from being pushed higher than it already is once the bios is updated.
    (Or the user just dials those increases in via soft modding or Wattman I suppose which also has a similar effect.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020
  17. alanm

    alanm Ancient Guru

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    Seen some ppl in forums testing their cards with various drivers, settings, clocks, voltages, etc. Previous AMD GPUs had higher voltages and were thus more stable and of course many would under-volt their cards to keep power draw, temps down. One Navi owner who has done much testing thinks AMD is trying to dynamically define the vcore like Nvidia in order to keep power consumption in check and this may be causing issues with the new 7nm arch.
     
  18. Alessio1989

    Alessio1989 Ancient Guru

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  19. Megastitious

    Megastitious Member

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    And if that was the only issue lol.What about the "traditional" screen flickering that was there since the days they were ATI?I had to deal with their freaking drivers for 6 straight years until i switched (FINALLY) to the green team.
     
  20. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    Yeah the pre- 19.8 drivers I believe it was have different Wattman defaults if you save the preset into a file with not modifications though I have very sketchy understanding of how Wattman applies anything at all unless you first enable the relevant section but it does still read some value and this is same as with Vega different between some of the earlier and some of the later driver versions. :)
    Nothing should be applied because no override is actually enabled but obviously it getting different results means the driver is interpreting the defaults differently so yeah something's different here.
    (So it's not just going by bios defaults or hard set driver restrictions on what's the max allowed.)

    For my own comparisons the early drivers used 2100 Mhz at 1.2v meaning it regardless of GPU card defaults just pushed voltage and clocks to max for the boost level, after that it's been around 2050 Mhz at 1100 - 1150 Mv with auto undervolt as usual just cutting -50 not sure how well that actually works but well it's probably a fairly good conservative default. (Although the value does change if you do that mid-benchmark or when the GPU is under load which is a thing too but might be in error for what I know.)

    19.10 and a few others also ignored voltage changes entirely in Wattman and just ran with 1.2v but that's fixed now which I think is also fixed for the earlier 19.xx drivers where this was done for Vega GPU's as well for whatever reason.



    EDIT: Also yes voltage works as a curve so if you use 0.800 minimum and 1.1 maximum the GPU should be within these for scaling though it can often ignore minimum and drop below the set value even occasionally boosting above the max so how the driver or hardware adjusts this I'm also not quite sure about since it's some curve but it's also not entirely 1:1 for how this GPU scales between the lowest and highest.

    Not as bad as the fan profile "curve" at least so you get more than three set values here though the drop and how the card works within this does make it important for stability and clock speeds.
    (And how much it drops between max and min when not at full load could differ a bit too.)



    EDIT: Navi Wattman functionality overall could do with some tuning though.

    Should minimum even be something that can be changed if it just gets ignored or should it primarily be about max clocks and voltage and some extra power or a restriction on power though readouts for lowest voltage and clocks would be nice, memory info too which is also very limited and ideally a toggle for the power saving thing entirely to get the GPU to keep higher clock speeds even at lower demanding (Or so the driver seems to think.) situations and some problematic titles where this results in stuttering or possibly as a stability test too with less ramping up and down and voltage fluctuation. :)

    Navi and every other supported GPU model should also see the fan curve fixed to be a curve not a 1, 2 , 3 something stepping that the GPU gears into / shifts to immediately plus a addition of the previous target temperature option as a additional parameter or a easy to set target for how it worked before the fan curve addition saw this removed.

    EDIT: Power limit from -50% to +50% or depending on GPU (20% as another common option.) would be nice to see changed to either a readout for the actual wattage or just having the slider directly scaling wattage from bios for a easier readout.

    Same functionality easier reading of what it changes and how instead of figuring out the GPU bios default which might be non-reference and then going up or down by fifty percent or so and the driver limited max if applicable also being shown.

    Hotkeys for defaults and profiles wouldn't be bad either, wiping stored settings and going back to real defaults and a locked Wattman for testing to ensure it doesn't interfere and what not could also be useful to improve it.


    Already kinda overbuilt and complicated so just going with it and making it more readable and easy to use with some additional power user options and more adapted per-GPU settings would be really useful.
    (Keep the dangerous stuff like SOC voltage and such locked or read only though more sensory info overall would be useful without third party program involvement.)



    EDIT: Well that can be tuned in and worked out over time, first get things stable and fixed up and working then start doing the UI and layout stuff and minor usability tweaks, priorities and all that. :D
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020

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