PSA: RTSS is broken in Doom Eternal

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by Terepin, Mar 20, 2020.

  1. Unwinder

    Unwinder Moderator Staff Member

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    Only overlay renderer is forcibly disabled when game is presenting from compute. Framerate limiter is still active.
     
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  2. HeavyHemi

    HeavyHemi Ancient Guru

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    You're not paying attention. You keep professing yourself as the expert. I'm am merely pointing out what is a capability of the game engine not what the GAME is using. Holy cow...
    2005 I was running the back end of one of the largest semi firms on the planet. But hey, you're the expert who keeps boasting but not producing. Go on, explain why Doom 2016 has the issue in the PRECISE technical detail you are clearly boasting you have. Put up or shut up.
     
  3. aufkrawall2

    aufkrawall2 Master Guru

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    You can keep that advice to yourself and not post off topic nonsense to derail threads. Thank you.
     
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  4. HeavyHemi

    HeavyHemi Ancient Guru

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    How is posting on the topic off topic? I asked you to back your insulting reply. You continue to refuse. That's your problem, not mine. No thanks wanted, results are.
     

  5. janos666

    janos666 Master Guru

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    Nevertheless, it looked like a cheap distraction attempt.
    As far as I am aware, the first game engine which demonstrated HDR rendering was the unfinished version of Half-Life 2, roughly 17 years ago (sometimes in 2003). It could render in HDR and map back to SDR output (the original SM 2.0 based HDR was cut during development in 2004 and later replaced with a different, SM 3.0 based implementation that released with the LostCoast demo DLC in 2005 --- IMO the original 2003 HDR demo looked FAR superior to the 2005 HDR effects which over-utilized the newly added HDR bloom effect rather than trying to be photo-realistic like the 2003 demo). After about 2006, pretty much every big and significant game engine had some sort of HDR implementation with SDR mapped output (in the early years, many over-utilized the bloom effect but sanity slowly prevailed). Then, in late 2016 a few games started experimenting with HDR10 and/or DolbyVision output, mainly through NVAPI (and/or AMD AGS) until Win10 started offering (forcing, actually) it's own standard HDR10 mode in 2017 (which first led to broken NVAPI HDR but it was fixed sometimes during late 2017 or early 2018 by nVidia driver updates). I am note sure which game was the first (because several games received post-release updates in later years [still on-going during 2020] which enabled HDR10/DV output) but may be it was Shadow Warrior 2 (or Forza Horizon 3? Battlefield 1 was the second, I think). These were mostly DX11 titles (at least at the time, some might also received DX12 patches later).
    So... now... in 2020, roughly 3.5 years later, when tens of games can utilize Win10 HDR (or NVAPI or AGS) for HDR10 output (most games choose Win10 HDR over proprietary APIs these days and it's almost a smart choice, except they often fail to offer a switch to automatically toggle the Win10 switch upon launch and restore it on exit)... Do you really think it's sane (even) to refer to the old HDR->SDR render paths (which mapped the output to SDR with retina adaptation and bloom effects) in the contexts of "HDR output" and games released in 2020 with true HDR10 support (which output HDR10 format to compatible displays rather than SDR)? And all that after somebody already made a post about how Doom 2016's engine can't possibly have HDR10 output in Vulkan mode since Vulkan (the API itself) didn't even support HDR output when the game still received updates (the Doom v6.66 patch was released in 2017, Vulkan v1.1.104 was released in 2019 [and that was an AMD extension, I am not sure if that's compatible with nVidia and/or when they got their own or a standardized generic extension...]). So, I think stating that "Doom 2016 can render in HDR" is misleading in 2020 because there is no big game engine since about 2006 (more than a whole decade) which can't. Very misleading actually, because you usually can't even turn it off (not even with launch parameters or console commands)! It used to be a config option in the early years (because it was more of an "HDR effect" [mostly a bloom and retina adj. effect], but not anymore, game designs now relay on it and it's real/full HDR rendering in all stages before the final SDR mapping, if any). Saying that "Doom 2016 has an HDR render path" is like saying "the Earth is round". It might not even have an SDR render path at all (at least it's not officially supported, that's for sure). So, how is that relevant (in the context of this topic)?
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
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  6. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    paragraphs!
     
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  7. Cyberdyne

    Cyberdyne Ancient Guru

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    I'm lost, are we seriously confusing in game HDR lighting effects with games that support HDR monitors? The only thing they share is the three letters, totally different things. This is crazy.
     
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  8. janos666

    janos666 Master Guru

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    I would not say: "entirely". Technically the HDR rendering doesn't have to be different, it's only the mapping to the final output which differs greatly but there is always some kind of mapping (for both SDR and HDR outputs) with HDR rendering. Nowadays it's a mapping from some really wide color space (usually with linear luma) to either Rec709+gamma2.2 (~SDR) or Rec2020+PQ (~HDR10) (then the display also maps from this standard space to the native panel space in both cases). The working space could be smaller in the past but that was only an arbitrary choice, like now the bigger ones (something that makes sense at the time).
     
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  9. janos666

    janos666 Master Guru

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    Indeed. I know LLM will never affect the queue length of DX12 and Vulkan games but the G-Sync+V-Sync auto fps cap could be still engaged for these, I guess. But I checked and after disabling the 117fps V3 limiter for Doom, the fps reading on the RTSS overlay goes from 116 to 120, so it's not the Ultra auto-cap. I have no idea why it reads 116, it usually reads 117 when the V3 manual cap of 117 is in effect and 116 when Ultra auto-caps to 116.
     
  10. aufkrawall2

    aufkrawall2 Master Guru

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    You're right, I wasn't aware that it still caps fps with VRR.
     

  11. janos666

    janos666 Master Guru

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    It's strange because Ultra auto-caps for DX11 even when it can't override the game engine's own render ahead queue settings (e.g. Frotbite3 games in DX11 mode) but it never auto-caps for DX12 and Vulkan (at least not for any titles I tried) even though the V3 limiter work fine for those as well. And sometimes Ultra misses the cap for some DX<=11 titles as well (constantly for Divinity-OS 2, randomly for HALO-MCC), so it's not very reliable (sadly). But it's possible to set up both Ultra and the V3 limiter at the same time and then one of them will activate (these don't disturb each other, Ultra simply overrides the number when it decides to engage).

    Back to the topic... I just finished Doom 2016 and started Ethernal. The RTSS overlay (yet again) works without any custom parameters applied (I am still not sure why it wasn't disabled for Doom 2016 because I didn't tweak anything) but I used the HDR10 output (Ethernal only, obviously). The performance is very hectic though. I can stand still and watch the fps counter showing ~50 for a minute with ~50% GPU usage (and negligible CPU usage), and then it randomly jumps to ~110fps with ~85% GPU usage (still pretty low CPU usage, I never saw >25%) but still doesn't hit neither the fps cap at 117, nor ~99% GPU usage (there is still some elusive bottleneck somewhere even when it performs acceptably). I wonder if this might has something to do with the HDR10 mode (or may be the RTSS overlay on top of that) but I guess it's simply buggy and needs a few more game and driver updates to run smoother.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
  12. Yashiro

    Yashiro New Member

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    I guess we will have to wait for an official overlay hook for Vulkan to avoid the big performance hit then.
     
  13. Unwinder

    Unwinder Moderator Staff Member

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    I guess you just need to start reading prior to posting. There won't be any "official overlay hook for Vulkan", that sentence is a nonsense, sorry.
     
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  14. Yashiro

    Yashiro New Member

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    Roger, how unfortunate.
     
  15. janos666

    janos666 Master Guru

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    HDR10 and RTSS has nothing to do with this, the fps is still strangely hectic with these both disabled. It's probably the game (not even the nVidia driver) or may be I should pick an even lower texture buffer size option than allowed for my 6Gb of VRAM (but I would expect short fps drops if that was the case, not things like this).
     

  16. Michael Freeman

    Michael Freeman Member

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    Hi. I tried the setting in the RTSS config file and I still can't get the overlay. However there could be some problem with the engine blocking any external hotkeys. Anyways considering the cited performance hit I went onto using the AMD drivers overlay (I usually prefer RTSS) which works very well in Vulkan. So there must be a way to put an overlay over Vulkan without a performance hit (at least AMD does not cite one). So is this in development for RTSS ? Cheers.
     
  17. Unwinder

    Unwinder Moderator Staff Member

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    Search is your friend. No need to be lazy.
     
  18. Terepin

    Terepin Master Guru

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    Wouldn't it be easier to differentiate between HDRR (games) and HDRI (monitors)? Unless I confused these two terms.
     
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  19. Sajittarius

    Sajittarius Master Guru

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    but then what would we argue about?
     
  20. janos666

    janos666 Master Guru

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    Would that be Rendering and ... I... iiiii.... errr... :D
    May be it's better to use HDR10 and DV (optionally adding 10 or 12 after the letters in case the bit depth is known) when referring to those display output formats (since those are the shortened names of the current standards).
    But I don't think it's a real issue until you meet some internet trolls who try to win arguments which they engineered to confuse others. :p
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2020

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