PS5 SSD Is 'Far Ahead' of High-End PCs, Epic Games CEO Says [IGN]

Discussion in 'Games, Gaming & Game-demos' started by Carfax, May 14, 2020.

  1. Carfax

    Carfax Ancient Guru

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    Wow, that's horrible! 30 seconds just to load the data into RAM. That seems like an engineering oversight to me. Spend the money on 8GB of GDDR5 but have it be crippled by a painfully slow HDD.

    But this does show the strength of having disparate memory pools. In a PC with a 7200 rpm HDD, you can still have good performance because the system RAM acts like a large cache between the storage and the VRAM. That's not the case in the current gen consoles.

    If anything, the PS5 SSD seems like it's playing a similar role to the system memory in a PC.

    We're underestimating it because we have system RAM. System memory can fill the VRAM at a much faster pace than any SSD, but of course the capacity isn't nearly as large. However, RAM capacity is always increasing. DDR5 will bring 32 and 64GB of RAM into the mainstream when it finally launches, while simultaneously increasing memory bandwidth in a big way.

    As for Directstorage, from what I have read, SSD manufacturers will have to subscribe into it to allow developers to access the NVMe controller. Not sure that many manufacturers are going to want to do that.
     
  2. Carfax

    Carfax Ancient Guru

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    From what I understand, the main reason why the Witcher 3 has terrible pop in and draw distance is because the CPU optimization was mediocre. Witcher 3 was their first foray into DX11, so they didn't know any of the tricks to minimize draw calls and what not and they wanted the game to run on as many PCs as possible.

    Just think, the PC version on ultra settings has the same draw distance for buildings and what not that the Xbox One and PS4 had. When Blood and Wine was released, they had used DX11 instancing to reduce the CPU burden and increase the draw distance, which is why Blood and Wine has much better draw distances than the base game.

    Well designed engines and games are highly scalable, so while my hardware isn't representative of the common denominator, scalability is something all developers should aspire to. Witcher 3 was scalable in many ways, ie shadows and vegetation, but was seriously lacking in others.

    Ampere is going to be incredible. A lot of Pascal owners (including myself) were waiting on Nvidia's 7nm solution, knowing it was going to be much faster and more efficient than Turing, which used 12nm transistors.

    A 3060 should be comparable to a 2080 or so, making mainstream that much more potent.
     
  3. Yxskaft

    Yxskaft Maha Guru

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    System RAM also needs to be filled though.

    Both Microsoft and Sony have also pointed out the dedicated hardware for decompressing. If SSD manufacturers won't allow access to the NVMe controller, I do fear that PC gaming will be in a world of hurt. Consoles too will obviously be hampered by games still targeting current gen, but say if many start targeting the PS5 and Series X only three years from now, it might be painful for PC hardware if the software hasn't caught up.

    But the problem for us laymen is that we don't have anything good to go by in this case. There's no good SSD benchmark in that sense, since basically all games have been made to load from the HDD despite SSDs having been available for more than a decade. Decompression algorithms and I/O has largely been a non-issue for PC gaming.
    The difference between the SSDs and HDD in this clip is arguably small if you look at the theoretical capabilites.
     
  4. kx11

    kx11 Ancient Guru

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    they just said a 2070super + ssd is enough to run the UE5 demo
     

  5. lmimmfn

    lmimmfn Ancient Guru

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    Don't these SSD's support DMA though? Huge savings to be had in terms of CPU processing directly loading to GPU RAM
     
  6. S.T.A.R.A.C.

    S.T.A.R.A.C. Master Guru

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    Tim Sweeney talks BS as usual.
     
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  7. kx11

    kx11 Ancient Guru

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  8. Carfax

    Carfax Ancient Guru

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    And it is, mostly during startup. If you ever wonder why some games take forever to boot up, it's because the storage is loading data into RAM; gigabytes of it. And as a particular level or area loads, that's when the RAM is sending data to the VRAM.

    This process is constantly ongoing during gameplay as well via streaming, but at start up it's much more pronounced.

    I'm not really concerned to be honest. 3 years from now, PC hardware will be substantially more powerful than it is today. Faster CPUs with more cores/threads, GPUs with more VRAM, PCIe 5.0, more and faster RAM and SSDs as well. Even if SSD manufacturers don't allow direct access to the NVMe controller, PC hardware should easily be capable of brute forcing whatever is necessary.

    That said, it wouldn't surprise me if the SSD manufacturers do allow access and make a specific gaming class SSD that is slightly more expensive or something.

    That's because decompression is done by the CPU. If you use a weak CPU like that review did, then the theoretical performance advantage of the SSD will be less pronounced because the CPU is the primary bottleneck.

    Having an SMT capable CPU reduces load times which is expected, as seen in this video. So the difference between M.2 and SATA SSDs is more noticeable:

     
    Last edited: May 22, 2020
  9. WhiteLightning

    WhiteLightning Don Illuminati Staff Member

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  10. Undying

    Undying Ancient Guru

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    They are acting like loading times are everything. Who cares if it load in a instant when after that you have 1440p 30fps. What a joke.
     

  11. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    They are everything.

    Everything from the Stutters in loading new regions of a map to the size of the game entirely are based on minimizing the need to seek.
     
  12. isidore

    isidore Ancient Guru

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    Yes sir you are perfectly right. But that combo you just said its in a few PC's. What about the million different ones?
    When they say far ahead, i think they really mean, far ahead of becoming mainstream. And he is right, we will have to wait some good amount of time before our SSD can send 9GB of encrypted data direct into the GPU under a millisecond.
     
  13. isidore

    isidore Ancient Guru

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    Lol dude, just imagine the capabilities of that. We reached a graphics fidelity, in shaders and effects that's pretty damn good. But we still have maps designed on system memory size and speed.
    The ability to load the entire game world in your face and you cant notice it its a game changer. They can literately render only what you see at a much higher fidelity because they don't need pre-loads ahead of time.
    But i do understand your PC gamer statement. :) i personally try to enjoy both gaming worlds, these new console will give us something that the average PC is not capable of.
     
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  14. SerotoNiN

    SerotoNiN Ancient Guru

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    Consoles are always overhyped before they debut. Microsoft is already backtracking on 4k/60 as a requirement. System isn't even out yet and now its a suggestion but not a requirement. That basically means 1440/30 I'm guessing.

    As for Tim Sweeny, Epic sold out to consoles over a decade ago. He's been shitting on PC ever since the company made that change. That demo was nice. But, let's be real. If they get close to that in final product in game, it'll be 2023.

    The only thing that makes Sweenys comments even remotely accurate is not so much PS5 is better than PCs ...but that PC isn't cared for or given the same development of consoles. So they can boast about a feature they'll be too lazy to implement for us.

    PC. Where parity and developers kill its power, since 2009.
     
  15. Lian

    Lian Master Guru

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    always been this way ... both with the old Gen and current Gen of consoles.

    video comparisons between ps3 pc / ps3 xbox360 / ps4 pc / xboxone pc etc ...
    maybe only the first games that come out make sense the graphic comparisons, then the pc remembers that it still has the fifth gear and the NOS to use ...
    ..and the consoles will start comparing each other ..

    PC is the GOD of games ...

    modding is a strong point ..

    the living room boxes cannot match the PC.


    never.
     

  16. jbscotchman

    jbscotchman Ancient Guru

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    Can't blame them for touting the power of SSD. I say bring it on.
     
  17. Dragam1337

    Dragam1337 Ancient Guru

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    Living room boxes can't match pc's potential capabilities, but they far outmatch it on price to performance. And with the new consoles having 12 tflops gpu and 8 core / 16 thread ryzen cpu's, they are going to be vastly better than the average gaming pc. Yes, you can buy highend pc components that are far exceed that of the new consoles, but how many people actually spend that much on pc gaming hardware? Alot of us on guru3d do, but looking at the steam surveys, it's not exactly the norm.
     
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  18. Lian

    Lian Master Guru

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    pc players have another spear to break ..

    the price of the games.

    60euro ps3 game at D1
    79 euro ps4 game at D1
    100euro ps5?

    pc game? mhh 40/60 euro at D1 2005+
    pc no subscription for online games ..

    are you sure you spend less on consoles?

    epic games that gives games ..
    ... sale on Steam.
    key sellers ... etc ..

    there are games at d1 also at 40 45 euros ..

    and I'm talking about the European market ..
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
  19. S.T.A.R.A.C.

    S.T.A.R.A.C. Master Guru

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    Not true!
    The post above about games prices tells you everything. PC games are much cheaper, and btw you can play them even for free.
    You can't trick them you know. They will always find the way to rob you.
     
  20. Dragam1337

    Dragam1337 Ancient Guru

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    You have to play aloooooot of games for a 5000 usd pc to become cheaper than a 500 usd console...
     

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